Hero Mechanic idea

from Elemental Forums

I've been toying with an idea the past few days and I *think* it's a good idea but I'm not sure if it's a fun idea.  I had the initial idea back in some other thread, but have expanded on it since.  It goes like this:

- There should be *very* few (maybe none) recruitable heroes on the map.  Instead, heroes are spawned from your armies.  So each time an army levels up, there's a chance that you'll be given the choice "A hero has emerged" - you're then given the choice of taking a lvl 1 hero and the army either reverts to lvl 1 (or half its level?  The idea is the army strength is reduced because the key leader has left) or disbands, or leave the hero in the army and it takes its level as normal.  I would think something like a 0.5% chance of a hero emerging when a level 1 army levels, increasing to (and capping at) a 5% chance when a level 10 army levels.  These percentages could be increased by researched techs (replacing the current recruiting techs) - things like "Talent Identification" and "Specialist Training"

- Reduce the number of HP a hero gets.  The idea is that a hero is just a regular guy - maybe slightly smarter or stronger or skillful, but still just a person.  I think an individual guy in an army gets ~10HP at level 1, but your average hero has 30+.  This gets out of hand as heroes level up and end up having a couple of hundred HP.  I think at no stage should any "person" (regardless of level) have more hit points than a dragon, or even a grizzly bear.  Sure, they can be more skillful, or better at dodging, or have better armour, but they shouldn't have more hit points.  If a dragon gets a good solid bite on a hero's head, it should kill him, not just knock off 10% of his hit points.

- Heroes can then be assigned back to an army unit, so the army becomes "this squad, plus a hero".  In combat, they work as one unit, but the regular guys act as the hero's bodyguard - they all die before the hero takes damage.  Hero traits that currently affect the entire army (e.g. that army dodge +1 trait) could then be made to affect only the squad the hero is assigned to (and maybe increased in power?).  The hero can be removed from the army unit and assigned to a different unit (or left to go solo) at will.  The unit would move at the rate of its slowest member (so if the hero has a horse but the army doesn't, you only get movement 2)

- The trade off to assigning a hero to an army is that no hero can then emerge from that army while the hero is assigned.  People only step up and do something extraordinary (and stupid) when there's not some heroic fool rushing in and doing it first.

- Because heroes would tend to build up over time (or can be replaced), you can make it so that if they're killed in battle (or maybe only if their army loses), they are dead dead instead of wounded and recouperating in the Bahamas.

The advantages I see are that it removes the "champion stack of doom" and makes armies relevant - heroes wouldn't survive against armies or tough creatures by themselves (at least not reliably) due to lack of hit points.  It also encourages you to upgrade your armies (so that they're better bodyguards), and gives at least 2 additional strategic decisions (do I sacrifice existing army strength to gain a new hero?, Do I assign a hero to the army to make it stronger, but lose the opporunity to gain more heroes?).  And I think it would make it easier to balance armies vs heroes.

The disadvantages I see are that it's probably too much effort (and fun risk) for this stage of development, and it possibly makes heroes and hero development less interesting/exciting.

Thoughts?

5,410 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top


- There should be *very* few (maybe none) recruitable heroes on the map.  Instead, heroes are spawned from your armies.  So each time an army levels up, there's a chance that you'll be given the choice "A hero has emerged" - you're then given the choice of taking a lvl 1 hero and the army either reverts to lvl 1 (or half its level?  The idea is the army strength is reduced because the key leader has left) or disbands, or leave the hero in the army and it takes its level as normal.  I would think something like a 0.5% chance of a hero emerging when a level 1 army levels, increasing to (and capping at) a 5% chance when a level 10 army levels.  These percentages could be increased by researched techs (replacing the current recruiting techs) - things like "Talent Identification" and "Specialist Training"
End of quote

I think that is a great idea. The only heroes should be the sovereign and the champions who emerge from armies. The heroes should not be able to move on the battlefield, can not attack and can not be attacked until the last army in their group falls. They can cast spells and increase the attack, defense, initiative, movement and spell resistance of the army as in Kings Bounty: Armored Princess. If the last army in their group falls the heroes can move, attack and be attacked, but they have only the stats of a normal unit + the talents.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Sounds like a very interesting idea to me, although I am a bit confused about whether you mean unit or group, the times you say "armies". :)

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top


I'm not sure I like the idea of such a low random chance spawning a champion unit. The idea has merit, but unless units leveled frequently on their own this could get pretty frustrating. I suppose it's not much different than a chance per turn to get a hero to join you in Master of Magic.. but then that was frustrating enough to include an additional mechanic to force 'hiring' a hero. Hmm.. perhaps once a unit reaches a certain level you could have it 'retire' and seek out a champion. After x ammount of turns a champion joins the empire of an appropriate level and the retired unit is removed from the game.

Joining armies doesn't seem like a good idea. In theory it is a neat concept, but you would never join a champion with the unit unless the overall strength of that champion plus the strength of that unit were greater when joined. And even if it did, I think it would excacerbate the stack of doom issue we are having right now. One of the core concepts brad wants to keep in the game is the idea that heroes are capable of functioning well on their own, I don't think the delegation to champions as members-inside-units would sit well.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Joining units in the current system would be horrible and pointless. Theres no mechanics for it, they just become one seamless larger unit with multiple attacks. It's not worth implementing.

I'd prefer a tavern mechanic for hero recruitment then a promotion from the ranks one.  As than you have some control  over what type of heroes you get. A tavern screen for purchasing heroes and checking quests would be much easier.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Is this an "Ogre Battle" idea?  I miss that game.  I might have to dig it out, set up an old system, play it for 5 minutes, get bored and put it back up tonight.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Don't like it... I like being able to recruit heroes.  I hear you can also get heroes from completing quests.  Adding 1 or 2 more ways of getting heroes such as emergence following a great battle or heroes coming to you once your prestige gets high enough could be good additions.