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Ship New Limitations

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Ship New Limitations

Feul-Air-Ammo-Rations(Food/Water)-Fatigue

from Sins Forums

I've always liked how in some games, like this very old game "Homeworld", ships are given a limitation like Feul. in other games they limit Ammo (although they are usually land-based strategy games like "Battlefield"), and we all know that spaceships don't have an unlimited supply of Air (Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, or whatever the Vasari and Advent breathe) and every living thing needs water and some from of nutrients (food).

 

  1. Fuel-
  2. obviously, these ships must run on some form of gas or fuel of some form. i think adding it to the ships amount of stats would increase the need to assess just how useful all the ships are.
  3. differences between ships on case of fuel is amount of fuel and rate at which its depleted. FUEL WILL NOT BE DEPLETED IF THE SHIP IS UNMOViNG
  4. new ships for re-fueling on the go like a cobalt frigates ability to transfer antimatter, planet upgrades to harvest fuel (also amount of fuel on planet unlimited, but rates may vary), and tactical structures that refuel nearby ships like a repair platform (see Ammo for Omni-Resupply Tactical Structure). (see Air for "Omni-Resupply Ship")
  5. upgrades in the techtree (no need for a new one unless u want to put all 4 [fue, air, ammo, food] together in one new techtree and label it "Supplies")
  6. upgrades include efficiency of fuel and amount stored and what kind used (could also be used as explanation of why the fuel is more efficient/amount able to be stored)
  7. if a ship runs out of fuel it will either A: be unable to move unless resupplied (it can still shoot but cannot maneuver)

 

  1. Air-
  2. Obviously these guys need to breathe SOME-thing, and this can be supplied by planets.
  3. air on planets unlmited and can be distributed very easily by simply being within a certain range of the planet.
  4. no new ships to resupply air. (unless we have an omni-resupply ship for all 4)
  5. techtree- air upgrades (similar to Fuel)
  6. if runs out of air the ship will A: become debris and become unusable  or  B: blow up (no ships can resupply it air so its gotta blow up or become debris)

 

  1. Ammo-
  2. No ship should have unlimited ammo.
  3. amount of ammo and type of ammo depends on the guns and the ship.
  4. resupply by ship (Omni-Resupply) or going to the "Omni-Resupply" Tactical Structure (delivers feul, ammo, and rations) (Like a Repair Platform)
  5. ammo is unlimited at resupply stations.
  6. Techtree affects amount of ammo per ship/ type of gun. WILL NOT AFFECT DAMAGE that is already done by the Military/Hostile/Warfare techtree. and will possibly affect rate of fire (ROF)
  7. if a ship runs out of ammo it must resupply before it can shoot the gun(s) that use that ammo.

 

  1. Rations- (NOTE: this is actually a lesser one of my additions ive come up with but if added it will just make the game just THAT much more realistic and will help give the Omni-Ressuply structure/ship something else to work with)
  2. no ship can have a crew that is undernourished and dehydrated
  3. resupply by Omni-Ressuply structure/ship
  4. unlimited food at structure (NOTE: Omni-Ressuply ship WILL NOT have unlimited ammo-air-food-rations, these must be restocked at structures. the difference is the ships are mobile and just carry ALOT of it.)
  5. techtree affects how much can be stored and how effeciently your crew eats/drinks its Rations.
  6. if a ship runs out of rations it will  A: Turn neutral  B: blow up  or  C: become immobile until resuplied

 

  1. Omni-Resupply Ship/Structure
  2. for the omni-resupply ship it shall have an increased cargo for the supplies and can distribute it to the fleet. shall not be an unlimited supply and can be restocked at a planets resupply structure.
  3. for the Omni-Resupply Structure it shall have unlimited ammo-food-fuel (unless the planet has not "harvested" enof fuel) and a certain range (not gravity well range) to resupply ships. it will automatically fill the ship to max of all 4 and will resupply very quickly. this will stop any of u from saying "it will take forever for my massive fleet to be ready for an attack!"
  4. obviously if ALL of the different supplies are applied, then it should have its own techtree which will include upgrades for the Omni-Resupply structre/ship and the effeciency/rate of their usage. (Depicted in the individual supplies descriptions above)

 

  1. Fatigue-
  2. a crew should be able to rest right?
  3. fatigue is, again, one of my lesser wanting to add but all of these will make the game more realistic.
  4. fatigue is not a supply but will have upgrades for, say, "Adrenaline shots- makes your crew last 50% longer in combat" or something to that extent
  5. if a ship becomes too fatigued it wont STOP but it WILL become less efficient in use of ALL of its supplies. it will do less damage, will shoot slower, use more ammo, rations, fuel, and air.
  6. to stop a ship from being fatigued, pull him back from combat and let him sit for a couple seconds (minutes depending on balancing and crew size)(crew size depends on ship size {obviously})

 

NOTE: ALL OF THIS IS AN IDEA! This is not an actual aspect of SOASE: Rebellion.

NOTE: ALL OF THIS REALISM ASPECTS SHOULD BE ADDED IN THE OPTIONS AND CAN BE TURNED ON AND OFF INDIVIDUALLY!

Please be very thorough and criticize this as much as u want, i am going to apply this idea to Stardock if this seems like a good idea. i need you as the forum browsers to see any problems with this and tell me. THANK YOU!

33,195 views 37 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting superecnate, reply 25
2. That far in the future, they could probebly use the power from the reactor and turn it into food!
End of superecnate's quote
What the FUCK?

3. Again, that far in the future they probebly have Very efficiant (and cheap) recycling systems for what they breath, they could theoreticly survive forever. If they could make simulated plants (and that far in the future, they would) then they Could survive theoreticly forever!
End of quote
Even an endless supply of plants and other essential elements won't have people live beyond their normal life expectancy.

Are you sure you were't high when you wrote this?

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

I think he's taking into account procreation...with that in mind, your limitation would be food and energy, not the human lifespan....

Star Control: Origins
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 27
I think he's taking into account procreation...with that in mind, your limitation would be food and energy, not the human lifespan....
End of Seleuceia's quote
That still leaves point 2 to think about...

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

I suppose you could argue that in theory one could convert pure energy into any form of mass imaginable, including food...I think that's a little far fetched, even in a universe supposedly full of laser pulse weapons, phase jump drives, and "magical" psitech abilities...

Even if it were possible, it would most certainly be terribly expensive and inefficient...so, merely possessing the technology would not be enough to justify its use, which is why I don't think you are going to see such a method ever used for something as trivial as food...

I suppose "indefinitely" could have other meanings...for example, if the food/water/oxygen/energy/whatever supply is significantly longer than a human lifespan, one could say that might as well be indefinite...in that case, advanced recycling and filtration systems would go a long way....

If you take indefinite to be a really long time though, then legitimately depending on procreation to "crew" spaceships would imply interstellar journeys of decades, centuries, or longer....not exactly the kind of technology that's going to allow a galactic empire....

In either case, "indefinite" supply of anything is going to still experience definite limitations...whether it be the human lifespan, as you pointed out, or the logistic nightmare of century long space journeys, endless food and resources is not going to be enough....

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting superecnate, reply 25
1. It is quite possible for a ship to not need fuel. Our submarines don't, they use nuclear power. The ships could simply use a nuclear reactor, whic would explain why they explode so brilliantly.


4. Ammo, the plasma and lasers would not need any ammo, again they would use energy from the nuclear reactor, the bullets (if those Are bullets) would. However, those ships Are Very large (look at the size of the windows!) they could probebly carry enough for hours. Other, more crazy solutions, are portals to a world, teleporters to a world, or some sort of mass compresser that makes each material much denser, and when time to shoot, expands them and puts them together.

End of superecnate's quote

Nuclear powered anything still requires "fuel"...granted, it might last decades or centuries if only used for propulsion, but add weapons in the mix and you probably are going to need more uranium/plutoniun/thorium (or whatever you use to get your energy) every once in a while...

Honestly, I think it is conceivable that at least larger ships would have the ability to manufacture their own bullets and non-nuclear missiles given the raw resources...of course, whether they need to resupply for bullets or for raw resources, they still have to resupply...

Plasma does have "ammo" in that you need actual matter (plasma)...again, I think it would be unreasonable to convert raw energy into mass, so plasma weapons are still going to have to be restocked....maybe not in "bullets" per se, but in actual gas used to generate the plasma...

Lasers/beams are really the only weapons you could argue not having any ammo restrictions...however, they still need energy, which still needs to come from somewhere...call it fuel, call it the "reactor", call it whatever you want, it won't last forever...furthermore, high energy anything is going to probably needs lots of coolant and/or replacement parts...

With any of these weapons, a ship ultimately is going to be limited by something...once the ship's supplies are good enough for several decades, though, I don't think it hardly matters...I mean seriously, if you don't have the opportunity to resupply after several decades then you might as well just quit and give up on the whole interstellar travel thing...

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

ok. you guys are saying that due to that future tech they would already have all that solved. yes i agree. that would be in the TECH TREE! the advancements of increased re usability of air by recycling it: TECH TREE! the ability to turn energy into food (not my suggestion but): TECH TREE! and as for ammo, lasers and plasma DO require ammo, its just in the form of Energy for Lasers and (Antimatter or just condenssed plasma) for Plasma! and yes there are bullets for the TEC. the kodiak is the best example.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

Most of the base technology for space-faring is already researched when you start a match since humans had been exploring and trading for over 1000 years and the Vasari for over 10000.  The tech tree seems mostly meant for upgrades to the existing tech.

And while I do think a  multi-purpose "resupply" ship of some sort would be interesting, I keep myself satisfied with the following observations.

1.  My fleets tend to orbit my own planets longer than they are attacking neighboring ones, even if I'm trying to keep up the pressure (gotta repair and regenerate AM, but they can get supplies from the planet).

2.  Fighting in your culture (near your "supply line") gives your ships bonuses with the right upgrades

3.  On the offensive, I do have a "supply line" of sorts as I need to replace my destroyed ships with new ones (TEC ftw).  

These are abstractions to be sure, but they help me enjoy the game more.

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 30
Nuclear powered anything still requires "fuel"...granted, it might last decades or centuries if only used for propulsion, but add weapons in the mix and you probably are going to need more uranium/plutoniun/thorium (or whatever you use to get your energy) every once in a while...
End of Seleuceia's quote

Hopefully by this point as well we are getting more than .1% efficiency from our fission reactions and 1% efficiency for our fusion reactions as we currently are.. That would go a long way in the energy department.

Quoting stein220, reply 32
Most of the base technology for space-faring is already researched when you start a match since humans had been exploring and trading for over 1000 years and the Vasari for over 10000.
End of stein220's quote

Fully Agree, considering the dangers of space are much more logistically related than militarily related, if we have gotten to a point where we are fighting interstellar wars in, I think we will have likely already solved the more necessary aspects of space travel.

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 30
Plasma does have "ammo" in that you need actual matter (plasma)...again
End of Seleuceia's quote

From my understanding of the composition of interstellar space, collecting ionized gases and atomized particles to make plasma should be as easy as walking outside and picking up dirt.

Quoting The-TEC-Empire, reply 31
the kodiak is the best example.
End of The-TEC-Empire's quote

This is more of a lore issue than anything else. Actual explosive shell type cannon weapons will likely be incredibly impractical in space travel due to volatility issues and the need for ammo as discussed. IMHO, the only viable non energy based weapons a future space faring warship should/would have would be a limited number of high powered Nuclear Fusion missiles and kinetic kill sabot-style magnetic accelerator weapons. Ammo can be re-purposed scrap and raw asteroid material and the fuel would be electricity supplied easily by the type of power source necessary to propel large ships through space.

 

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting gamerlamb, reply 33
From my understanding of the composition of interstellar space, collecting ionized gases and atomized particles to make plasma should be as easy as walking outside and picking up dirt.
End of gamerlamb's quote

You'd still have to actually go somewhere to get the plasma...most of your colonized planets and asteroids are not going to conveniently be located in the middle of a nebula, and even if they were, collecting the plasma is probably going to take a long time given the low density of the stuff...

And that's assuming raw plasma of any sort is good enough....by this point, if you really want a realistic game, then getting plasma's going to be just as tedious as getting anything else requiring ammunition....

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

To put an end to this: new ship limits won't be added in Rebellion anyway. It would cause the game to lag even more in later stages. They intend to make Rebellion run smoother than any Sins game that we play today.

Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 35
To put an end to this: new ship limits won't be added in Rebellion anyway.
End of Teun-A-Roonius's quote

Haha fully agree.

This is now more in the realm of a thought experiment type of intellectual exercise.

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 34
You'd still have to actually go somewhere to get the plasma
End of Seleuceia's quote

Completely true to get ready made plasma.

But all you need to make your own is one of many gases, atomized particles & a high energy source. This is more what I was referring to and this is quite abundant throughout space. However, I will concede that after a protracted battle, it would certainly take time to replenish reserves. Of course this whole discussion is moot given that a projectile made of plasma would be about as effective as a projectile made of steam lol.