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Modders MP Zone

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Modders MP Zone

Archive of the pros versus modders game and current MP setup thread

from Sins Forums

As most of us know, there are two main communities in Sins of a Solar Empire, one for multiplayer and one for modding. Bar the occasional group of friends playing a mod on ICO together however, these two communities rarely interact with each other, besides occasional discussions of game balance.

 

Therefore I propose a little icebreaker in the true Sins fashion, complete with the typical disintegration of metal, screams of nuked worlds, and if we're lucky even the rare space pony sighting, that we've all come to know and love, regardless of which form of Sins we get most of our entertainment from. Yes, I think its time for the first ever Pro Player vs Modders MP game! :grin:

 

Of course as we are meeting in the Pro player's home court, I think in the interest of a semi-interesting game the modders will need a team advantage of some sort. Any ideas on the exact number of players on each team as well as the best time to arrange this will be welcome (I'd guess sometime on Thanksgiving weekend). And of course, if you're interested do let us know.

I'd like to have one pro player sort of be in charge of the logistics of making the game who promises to be there, presumably if any of the other pros don't show we can find substitutes at the game launch. As modders don't often log on to ICO don't commit unless you're sure you can make it at whatever time we agree on. Also if possible I think it would be nice for as many different mods as possible to be represented, but obviously filling the roster comes first.

Results:

Game 1 (4v4)

Auqia versus modders youtube

Modders FFA youtube

Replays

1,544,087 views 875 replies
Reply #301 from Sins Forums Top

Dumb question maybe, but how do you do that?  Didn't know that was possible for integrated microphone arrays...

Reply #302 from Sins Forums Top

Push-to-talk is an option in TeamSpeak, so TeamSpeak will only transmit your mic input when you do a certain keypress.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #303 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 298
Lol, you're more of a pro, not a tester. Come back online under JJ and not always undercover we need some competition for JJ. Also, feel free to throw me in under the pro side if the pros need another player
End of Nightraid3r's quote

Quoting master1a, reply 299
I can play again this week also; however I'm willing to sit this one out to give other players a chance to play.
End of master1a's quote

Alright, but unless Quar or someone shows up again you probably have the spot.

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 296
Cool...I assume teamspeak 3 is okay? I will warn you all, I'll be using the microphone on my laptop....
End of Seleuceia's quote

Quoting boshimi336, reply 300
Just set it up for push to talk. (which is something I would recommend in general)
End of boshimi336's quote

Yeah that's what I did, I think push to talk is the better setting as it seems my laptop mike picked up a lot of random noises and my teammates were nice enough not to tell me. ;)

Reply #304 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SpardaSon21, reply 302
Push-to-talk is an option in TeamSpeak, so TeamSpeak will only transmit your mic input when you do a certain keypress.
End of SpardaSon21's quote

Ah, okay...I was thinking I'd have to change the settings for the actual microphone...

Reply #305 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 298

Quoting JohnJames, reply 276I would not claim myself as a modder. Im more of a tester.

 

Are we doing any mods?

If so we should be clear which one and make sure everyone has them preloaded.

 

Lol, you're more of a pro, not a tester.  Come back online under JJ and not always undercover we need some competition for JJ.  Also, feel free to throw me in under the pro side if the pros need another player
End of Nightraid3r's quote

 

Its not always me on my accounts.  I gave away some of my serial numbers.  My main is always me though.

Reply #306 from Sins Forums Top

funny. The voice detection works well for me... wonder if that's cause it's a headset.

Reply #307 from Sins Forums Top

On labtops there is usually more vibrations and noice inducing items related to the microphones.

 

As an aside so you do not get the *DING* noise, I have mapped my left Alt button for push to talk.

Reply #308 from Sins Forums Top

laptops I get. I just assume most are using a tower. Probably wrong.

Reply #309 from Sins Forums Top

just to make sure i don't miss the session, what is the time we are going to play at?

Reply #310 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 309
just to make sure i don't miss the session, what is the time we are going to play at?
End of Nightraid3r's quote

Check the title of the thread.

:)

Reply #311 from Sins Forums Top

Perfect :-)

 

Reply #312 from Sins Forums Top

So I finally decided to read through a bit of the post in some of my free time, and decided to make a few comments

 

Quoting DesConnor, reply 258
Its a pity that the clans that we have are so much about guessing each others smurfs and haven't taken any part in helping to structure the game.
End of DesConnor's quote

True enough, but you have to realize its not like anyone helped us to the top either, we got here on our own, and for the most part I expect others to do the same.  I could spend a large chunk of my time on ICO being nice, helpful, loving, open to growth, et cetera, but for what?  The sad fact of ICO is that it is still plagued to this day with minidumps (while not as frequent, still a problem), massive endgame lag, and low player counts.  I've read every thread from here to Timbuktu about why player counts are low, why the pros should help, why it is important to teach new players, and none are that compelling.  Sure, I've done what seems reasonable to me to help out some players get to the top, although the most recent truly "successful" trainee was N1M who does not even really play anymore.  Bottom line, it is just too much to ask to devote the time required from my leisure time to try to fix the broken community.  I view it as trying to pour cement in a black hole in hopes of filling it.

 

Quoting Wrath89, reply 255

Yeah, it would be helpful for them to understand what ship(s) counters what...
End of Wrath89's quote


Come on, I can't really feel bad for them for not knowing what ships counter what ships, it is not like it is hidden in fine print, or buried on page 412 of 9000 of the manual, it is right on the infocard that pops up when you hover over a ship in the factory production screen.

 

Quoting Greg30007, reply 227
I cannot say but star was probably feeding his team while goa in eco wasn't. He was actually fed for a while and he never tried to double someone. He waited for his teammates to die and then he fought himself.

It would be nice to see pros side of reply with teams peak chat and.... Just as "learning example" for modders and rest of ICO.   
End of Greg30007's quote

a. I did absolutely nothing to feed my team, if you watch the replay to its bitter end, you can see that i pile up an absurd number of credits per second (I won't venture a guess at the number for fear of making an inaccurate one) at the games end.  I must shamelessly say I used the game as a personal sandbox with which to test out how many credits per second I could attain as Vasari in such a time period.

b. You are right, I think that seeing something from the pros point of view would be beneficial, and as I record youtube videos for other games, I've often pondered whether to make a youtube video to really see the game through my eyes, where I click, when I click it, and why I do so, but I've only received mix feelings about such a proposition and don't want to waste my time on such a venture if it will not be appreciated.

 

-Star

Reply #313 from Sins Forums Top

I'm sure it would be appreciated by at least a few people.  I don't know what your threshold of what enough appreciation is, however, while I may not contribute to ICO very much outside of goofing off and creating smurf accounts that should in all honesty get me banned, I do enjoy watching pros play and seeing how they do things I just wouldn't really even think of trying.  I dedicate my Sundays from August to February for doing exactly that.  ;P

Reply #314 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 312
and don't want to waste my time on such a venture if it will not be appreciated.
End of Nightraid3r's quote

Appreciation will be there believe me. Perhaps not from hundreds of people but people who want to learn and/or get better    at game will get strong "tutorial" SINS why and how to do everything. ;)

Reply #315 from Sins Forums Top

I need to get up early on sunday so  I can either free my slot or we move game 2h earlier.

Reply #316 from Sins Forums Top

It wasn't the inability to conjure new players out of thin air that I was trying to get at though, Star.  There is another potential demotivational factor to the main ones you mentioned- low player counts, lag, minidumps- the issue of poor game balance, which alienated many experienced players.  At least the balance is the best its been for a while, though it could use further work. 

While any online coaching efforts are always welcome, noone expects the clans to devote time to noobs.  However what I feel is missing are quality replays, which stems from the absence of quality games.  What is the point of of clans which don't play each other?  The real culprit here are the 5s pugs, which draw new players in who are unable to play at a decent enough level to remain enthusiastic.  5s pugs are just noob-stomping grounds, given a facade of respectability by having elite players divided between the teams.  It doesn't alter the basic problem that noobs are having to play elite players, which would not happen in a well-run multiplayer scene.  Also such games tend to be useless for balance testing purposes.  Who can tell if Advent are weak if an elite player can just roll a noob with any faction?

So what we need is more games that match the elite players solely against each other.  Also, not just 5s- many of the problems with lag and to a lesser extent dumps are because you play 5s all the time.  Why don't the clans play 2s or 3s with just top players?  A set of 3 or 5 games between 2 of the best players from each clan, or even an internal clan matchup, would produce great replays.  Why has there never been a singles or doubles tournament for top players?  It doesn't have to be all on the same night, after all?  All you have to do is announce the matches and when they have to be played by, and let the players themselves sort out when the games will take place?

You could play a 2v2 elite bo3 series after this noobstomp walkover, for instance?  It might be useful to illustrate current issues with the game?

Anyway, thats what I meant by giving a structure the game, I wasn't blaming the clans for low player counts. 

Boshimi, Trophy Bass 3D is an angling simulator.  You might say fine, so what, you could speed time to get to the next time you hook a fish, real time angling needn't be about going to sleep in front of the computer with an occasional flick of the mouse to stop the screensaver coming up.  However, it had online multiplayer... chat was a major feature, as you might expect.  Perhaps my polemic on noobs was overly harsh.  I had a heavy cold and ICO dumped me four times in a row.  Good luck with the game tonight, it 'll be fun to watch you crap 500,000 credits out of your ass.  Damn, there I go again.  Its just that whenever inexperienced players imagine that they have valid input on balance, it reminds me of Agent of Karma and his constant whines that the Skirantra was underpowered....  At least your team doesn't include noob-who-can-stay-happy-unlike-uptight-geeks-because-he-has-tons-and-tons-of-girlfriends!      

Reply #317 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DesConnor, reply 316
It wasn't the inability to conjure new players out of thin air that I was trying to get at though, Star.  There is another potential demotivational factor to the main ones you mentioned- low player counts, lag, minidumps- the issue of poor game balance, which alienated many experienced players.  At least the balance is the best its been for a while, though it could use further work. 

While any online coaching efforts are always welcome, noone expects the clans to devote time to noobs.  However what I feel is missing are quality replays, which stems from the absence of quality games.  What is the point of of clans which don't play each other?  The real culprit here are the 5s pugs, which draw new players in who are unable to play at a decent enough level to remain enthusiastic.  5s pugs are just noob-stomping grounds, given a facade of respectability by having elite players divided between the teams.  It doesn't alter the basic problem that noobs are having to play elite players, which would not happen in a well-run multiplayer scene.  Also such games tend to be useless for balance testing purposes.  Who can tell if Advent are weak if an elite player can just roll a noob with any faction?

So what we need is more games that match the elite players solely against each other.  Also, not just 5s- many of the problems with lag and to a lesser extent dumps are because you play 5s all the time.  Why don't the clans play 2s or 3s with just top players?  A set of 3 or 5 games between 2 of the best players from each clan, or even an internal clan matchup, would produce great replays.  Why has there never been a singles or doubles tournament for top players?  It doesn't have to be all on the same night, after all?  All you have to do is announce the matches and when they have to be played by, and let the players themselves sort out when the games will take place?

You could play a 2v2 elite bo3 series after this noobstomp walkover, for instance?  It might be useful to illustrate current issues with the game?

Anyway, thats what I meant by giving a structure the game, I wasn't blaming the clans for low player counts. 

Boshimi, Trophy Bass 3D is an angling simulator.  You might say fine, so what, you could speed time to get to the next time you hook a fish, real time angling needn't be about going to sleep in front of the computer with an occasional flick of the mouse to stop the screensaver coming up.  However, it had online multiplayer... chat was a major feature, as you might expect.  Perhaps my polemic on noobs was overly harsh.  I had a heavy cold and ICO dumped me four times in a row.  Good luck with the game tonight, it 'll be fun to watch you crap 500,000 credits out of your ass.  Damn, there I go again.  Its just that whenever inexperienced players imagine that they have valid input on balance, it reminds me of Agent of Karma and his constant whines that the Skirantra was underpowered....  At least your team doesn't include noob-who-can-stay-happy-unlike-uptight-geeks-because-he-has-tons-and-tons-of-girlfriends!      
End of DesConnor's quote

You should be journalist in provincial newspaper.

 

Reply #318 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe I'll show up.  I need a break from company and it'd be nice to play with JJ again.

Reply #319 from Sins Forums Top

I'm going to have to back out of this game.  Sorry for it being so late, but I just didn't have any fun at all last game, and I'd like to avoid a repeat experience.

 

Reply #320 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SpardaSon21, reply 319
I'm going to have to back out of this game.  Sorry for it being so late, but I just didn't have any fun at all last game, and I'd like to avoid a repeat experience.

 
End of SpardaSon21's quote

Because fun is winning easy? Stick to comp stomps.

Reply #321 from Sins Forums Top

You're really one to talk about easy victories considering how quickly you pros overran us last game.

Reply #322 from Sins Forums Top

You always lose in the beginning. Fun is in overcoming your limitations.

 

Reply #323 from Sins Forums Top

So SpardaSon is out...4v4?  I don't like those odds...

Well...I can play 2 hours earlier so Mecha-Lenin will be in, but it'd be nice to know as soon as possible if the time actually will be changed...

Reply #324 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 312
True enough, but you have to realize its not like anyone helped us to the top either, we got here on our own, and for the most part I expect others to do the same.  I could spend a large chunk of my time on ICO being nice, helpful, loving, open to growth, et cetera, but for what?  The sad fact of ICO is that it is still plagued to this day with minidumps (while not as frequent, still a problem), massive endgame lag, and low player counts.  I've read every thread from here to Timbuktu about why player counts are low, why the pros should help, why it is important to teach new players, and none are that compelling.  Sure, I've done what seems reasonable to me to help out some players get to the top, although the most recent truly "successful" trainee was N1M who does not even really play anymore.  Bottom line, it is just too much to ask to devote the time required from my leisure time to try to fix the broken community.  I view it as trying to pour cement in a black hole in hopes of filling it.
End of Nightraid3r's quote

Not seeing teaching as worth it is a perfectly acceptable perspective, but there's a difference between that and going the extra mile and trolling newbies off of ICO.

Yeah, it would be helpful for them to understand what ship(s) counters what...
End of quote

Come on, I can't really feel bad for them for not knowing what ships counter what ships, it is not like it is hidden in fine print, or buried on page 412 of 9000 of the manual, it is right on the infocard that pops up when you hover over a ship in the factory production screen.

End of quote

There are a number of problems... the damage modifiers are not displayed, nor are easily accessable unless you already know what you're doing. The infocard leaves a lot of things out. The fact that flak counter LRF (a very important consideration that newer players often don't get, and even some of the regulars don't seem to get) isn't obvious at all except after you've fallen to that tactic and have realized what the enemy flak were doing.

b. You are right, I think that seeing something from the pros point of view would be beneficial, and as I record youtube videos for other games, I've often pondered whether to make a youtube video to really see the game through my eyes, where I click, when I click it, and why I do so, but I've only received mix feelings about such a proposition and don't want to waste my time on such a venture if it will not be appreciated.
End of quote

It would definitely be appreciated. A lot.

Reply #325 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SpardaSon21, reply 319
I'm going to have to back out of this game.  Sorry for it being so late, but I just didn't have any fun at all last game, and I'd like to avoid a repeat experience.
End of SpardaSon21's quote

They REALLY shouldn't have set it up as a 4v4 last time. You'd have been happier if your team had actually had a chance.

Don't stack the teams.