If you want to see broken check out 123 exploits on armistice.

To say something on topic- everyone forgets how game looked like before carriers buff. It was all about 1x egg/progen/akkan(marza). I dare to say there was a little less diversity than there is now. You can go 1 cap or 2 caps, carrier or colonizer. Sure caps are not balanced but they never were.

AND the strike craft have been nerfed.  Don't forget that balance tweak.

That's a problem with the other caps. Radiance doesn't scale, Rapture is weak early, and Revelation has one good ability.

Indeed, the Sova is kind of the odd one out of the carrier capitalships. Both the Halcyon and Skinatra start out strong early game and thanks to AoE abilities can still scale well late game. The Sova is absolutely monstrous early game but gets weaker with every planet your enemy acquires (reduces the economic damage from embargo) and every frigate they build as none of its abilities scale. Granted this is a big problem with the TEC in general, but late game the Akkan and Marza and perhaps even the Dunov are the better capitalships, and I think this should be considered in any debate of whether to nerf the Sova.

The Sova's Embargo is excellent for attacking the enemy's homeworld, but very rarely does any damage of significance if the target is anything else. HW assaults are very common in the early game (in 5s at least) but somewhat more uncommon later in the game (and the target will probably getting more income from feed later)... and large numbers of LRF later would probably kill or scare out the Sova before it could do much... unless the defenders are poorly positioned.

The Sova's 'scaling' later game is not with Embargo but with Missle Platforms. It can pump out a few of those during even a small battle. Its a brawler.

Now go ahead and parade the numerous flaws with the above statement. Its ok, it is what it is.

Indeed, all of the Sova's abilities have a scaling "problem". Missile platforms have the same stats no matter how many enemies you are fighting. Heavy Strikecraft at most effects 7 squads, which will hardly be noticed in the late game strikecraft swarms. Embargo only works on one planet at a time. Rapid Manufacturing doesn't stack, and the instant strikecraft only is for the Sova's squads.

That said, I think everything needs a weakness, and given how powerful the Sova's early game is I don't think it needs any buff to change this. Indeed, I think it compliments the TEC as a whole quite well, with a powerful rush but limited late game arsenal. But if people are adamant about nerfing embargo, something should be done to make the Sova more useful late game.

The Revelation needs to be almost completely reworked.

Problem I see with the double carrier cap is not 1v1 situation, its the 2v1 situation more common in MP.  vs 4 carrier caps you cant even starbase your home to hold out.  And 4 carrier caps vs 2 suppress your caps to nothing. 

On a side note: Counter strikecraft abilities should be buffed, with exception of TK push.  Since its on a carrier, it would provide air supremacy too easily.

What do you expect to happen in 2vs1?

Call me a sentimental fool, but "in the old days" it was quite possible to survive with your homeworld 2v1.

Egg + Sentinels= Easily Sniped Carrier Caps. I can field an Egg+ half dozen sentinels in first 7-8 Minutes easy and that crew eats Carrier's for Breakfast. I point that out in argument in favor of buffing other caps rather than nerfing Carriers. The problem is not that they are OP, it's that only 1 of the 3 Races has a viable counter to an early game cap rush. This would be easily corrected with buffs not nerfs.

From a balance perspective all games have to make a choice. Most games balance weak, then medium and then strong units against each other in a chronological progression of the game. SINS made the choice that some of the most powerful ships (Caps) could be available from the very start of the game. Because of this choice, there should be a balance where no 1 Cap is supremely powerful over another, each should have a reasonably attainable early game counter such as what I outlined above with Egg+Flak. Granted, that one grouping doesn't have to be able to kill any other Cap in fact I can think of easy early game Cap+Frig combos that can kill an Egg+Flak. The point is that for every strategy, their should be a counter. Then the game truly becomes one of skill and not spam. Just my opinion, not everyone will agree, but it is what it is.

Hate to be the balance Nazi, but if a game is well balanced, the only way 1 could survive a perpetual onslaught by 2 would be if the 1 was significantly more skilled than the 2.

Boost battleship caps, they are underpowered and dont scale properly.

Lvl 10 battleship like Kol or they counterparts are lame at best. Sure, they can do trick or two, but they lack the fleet killing power. 

Radiance used to have it, you could sink enemy fleet with well placed radiance and malice, now all the fincess is gone. All that matters is raw power.

Carriers are good because no antimatter, can keep them away from combat and have some antifighter or other useful tactical things like repair or economy jew.

All battleships fleet killing abilities are all but nerffed, kol is remotely useful as a glorified flak frigate against advent, but vasari bombers dont even care about the flak.

The only remotly useful combat cap is Marza, in my days i used to marzabait people with 3 marzas left right and middle. It is really all that combat cap shuld be, killing power against planets, a skill that can resolve battles in your favor if done right.

Most of the times, espesialy later on, caps are not worth the cost. I am bit eccentric player, because i can actually make some form of cap fleet viable, against semi retarded players... But if i really wanted to play serious, had good player against me and not for fun, 3 caps would be the absolute limit. After that it would be purely fleet spam and in your face rush.

Caps need love, it would be better if capital ships would be the factor that raises the fleet cap. Ever cap ship gives you 150 fleet cap for normal fleet. So you cant reach maximum fleet without 16 caps.

its a nice idea and would be interesting to have caps be the basis for fleet supply but then everyone would simply target capital ships and you could easily be in a hole of -800 fleet supply or so in a late game battle.  it would be frustrating to have to build 6 capital ships first to start building fleet again.

well, caps are the command ships, only natural to make them fleet flags...

Also, boosted caps and the fleet hole will mean that you cant just trow eco at peoples and turn the game in spamm fest.

The skill which handles the fleet now matters more than how much money you trow at enemy.

i feel like what you are describing is taking sins and making it a different game.  i know from previous experiences playing with you that you are a big fan of using capital ship abilities/auras to create very powerful fleets (advent multi-cap battle ball comes to mind).  I understand that you are particularly good at this and would like to see other people be subject to this game style but the truth is it would be the first steps towards making this more of a clickfest.  I do not personally have any issues with this but i know many members of the community would be sternly against the implementation of such a mechanism (if for no other reason then that they lack the micro capabilities).

I'm generally on the side that the non-carrier capital ships are too weak, rather than the carriers are too strong.  All you'd need to do to kill carrier supremacy is make the other capital ship classes faster.  If battleships were faster than carriers, then carriers could not kite against them.  This wouldn't just help with chasing down kiting enemies, but also escaping risky situations.  In order to be useful, non-carrier capital ships need to be able to get into the thick of battle, and if they want to survive to fight another day they need to be able to quickly withdraw as well.  More speed would give the other capital ships more leeway to be useful without actually increasing their power.

There's certainly nothing wrong with giving a modest boost to battleships for damage and support capital ships for antimatter.  They certainly could use it, and there's definitely leeway to buff them without making them overshadow frigates.  However, the problem with the other capital ships is more fundamental than damage or hull characteristics.  They simply don't have the mobility to be useful without getting themselves killed, unlike the carrier which can play a very conservative and defensive kiting game while still putting all its relevant features to use.

This would be the overall change I'd be rooting for:

Battleships: move speed 600 (from 525), +33% damage
Support Caps:  move speed 575 (from 525), +33% antimatter/regeneration
Marza/Vulkoras:  move speed 550 (from 525), +33% damage
Revelation:  move speed 550 (from 525), +33% antimatter/regeneration
Colony Caps:  550 (from 525)
Carrier Caps:  525 (no change)

Yes.

That sounds like a good start, though I'd doubt increasing the speed of the Revelation would result in anyone building Revelations.  That particular capital ship needs to be almost completely reworked.

Long ago, I suggested that there be a new researchable that increases the stats of capital ships that is in the seventh or eighth tier and has multiple levels.  The stat increases are also ship-specific.  For instance: siege and battleships get more damage, support gets more AM, etc.  You get the idea.  This way, they actually can scale into the late-game.

Seeing as how that never actually happened, I eventually got fed up with it and this summer I made it happen in my mod.  It seems to really work out well for me anyways.

Late game isn't about capital ships, its about lag, and any seasoned mp vet knows that.  whoever has the best rig to survive the imminent lag fest is destined to come out the victor, because they can just clearly micro infinitely better then the next guy with a worse computer.  Case closed as far as I see it (coming from a guy with a mid ranged system).

star p

Individual capital ship abilities would still need to be tweaked, but as far as generalized changes to the capital ship classes at large, that would be my proposal.  The Revelation only got its own entry because it's a siege capital ship that plays like a support capital ship, so it really doesn't fall into any classification.

As one of the guys with a higher-end system, I really haven't felt this.  I presume the main reason is that by the time I'm lagging, the game is so unplayable that everyone has quit.

Yeah, abilities themselves need tweaking.  But as for the general changes, I'm perfectly fine with that.