What's wrong with me?

Ok, so I've just gotten back on Sins from about a year or so of not playing, and I suck. I joined a game as Vasari (which I don't have much online experience with) and did as follows-

Send out scouts

Build Egg and one Weapons Lab

Capture neautral extractors

Send Egg to 'roid then colonize it

Research Ice/Volcanic colonies

Research LRMs

Build 10 LRMs

Take nearby planet

Build 2 Imperial Labs

Build 10 more LRMs

Take 1-2 more planets

Build 2 Imperial Labs

Research Trade

Build 1-2 Trade Ports on each planet

Around this point, I find an Advent enemy trying to take a planet I was about to go for with a few drone hosts and a Carrier Cap with bombers, all the while being yelled at by my teammate (who was scout rushing...) for not doing anything. I send my fleet there and take most of his Hosts out and force him to retreat, then take the planet. I figure he must have more strikecraft, so I adapt my strat, and make some fighters of my own, and build some defences on the outer planets of my territory.

Build 1 Carrier Cap w/fighters

Build 5 turrets on each outer planet

Upgrade planet logistics and tactical slots

Build 3 Weapons Labs

Research Hangers

Build 2 Hangers on each planet

Research first 2 Phase Missile Upgrades

Research Repair Bays

Build 2-3 on each planet

Research Disrupting Nanites for the turrets

Research Carrier cruisers

Research Flak Frigs

     I got to that point, and I see a small fleet jump into one of my outer systems. It was only a Mothership and a few Disciples, so I ignored it and let my defences do their job. They eventually jumped all the way to my home planet, which had a few turrets defending it and some ships coming out of the factory. Naturally, the Mothership retreated back through my defended planets, and eventually was destroyed. I felt a little more confident about beating him, until a medium sized fleet of Illuminators and a Carrier arrived at the planet I took from him earlier. He had distracted me. My fleet was 2 jumps away, and my defences were starting to fall. By the time they arrived, my planet was being bombed. The battle started to shift in my favor, but then a fleet jumps in from the left of the grav well. Around 20 more Illuminators and 10 Drone Hosts loaded up with fighters started to tear my LRMs to shreds.

     I tried to pull back, but there was too many. I lost all my LRMs but managed to save my Egg. I jumped it to a nearby space junk field, only to find a star base waiting at the edge of the grav well. It didn't even last a minute. On the other side of the galaxy, my other two teamates are also not doing too well. Yellow (the guy being a dick and telling me I'm a noob...) has his side controlled quite well, but a huge fleet was amassing at a border planet of his, destroying his scouts and Colbalts like nothing. I guess that's what you get for scout rushing. My other teammate, Blue, is putting up quite the fight. He has a star base floating around trying to fend off a huge enemy fleet, all the while sending LRMs to support.

     He falls after me, having 70 or so Javlies frigs destroy all his ships and his star base. My entire empire has been taken, and I have my home world to fall back to. I left the game just as Yellow was being overrun and telling us how shitty we were and that he was some sort of Sins god because he managed to send 80 scouts out in the first five minutes. My question is, what did I do wrong? Was it just a bad game for me?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11,046 views 20 replies
Reply #1 Top

My guess is that you simply built too many static defences, taking up too much of your resources. Further, you wasted time on building large numbers of labs for only a few techs.

IMO, you shouldn't have gone for tradeports, instead trading excess resources from neutral extractors on the black market, and built more Assailants and a pack of Sentinels.

Reply #2 Top
But if I had just made more Assailants the enemy fighters would have bitch slapped me...
Reply #3 Top

That is why you build Sentinels.

Reply #4 Top

I noticed the gazillion imperial labs you built. 

You prolly should not have built ANY, and skipped over the ice/volcanics. (unless this was a small random 1v1.)

You didnt talk about how you fought over control of the neutrals.  you need to fight over the neutrals as a vasari.  if you are not building 5 or more scouts your playing vasari wrong.

You also built shizztons of static defences.  you can build 1 turrent for to help millita clearing in some cases, and definately build a frig factory and 2 repair bays on a world if you think there will be a fight there quite shortly... but, vasari hanger bays should be used for phasic trap. and thats sort of a late game sort of thing.

Your method for deploying tradeports seems arbituray at best.  maximize your trade chain. there is no difference between 2 tade ports on 5 worlds, than 1 trade port on four worlds and 6 trade ports on a fifth.

Reply #5 Top
I guess I shouldn't have gone for trade so early. I haven't played much as Vasari online, usually TEC so that's probably why I went for it so early. And all the defences were a bad choice, I should have invested in more ships. As for fighting for neautrals, I had all of them controlled without any opposition. No one else but my other Vasari teammate were going for them, and there was only a few on my side. Any tips for playing as Vasari in the future?
Reply #6 Top

Cap Carriers, Assailants, Phase Missile research

'nough said

Reply #7 Top

REPLAYS!!! Everygame autorecords, goto single player and watch them to learn other peoples strategy, and what they reaserch!  If your not watching replays, your probably losing............... the fastest way to learn is to see exactly how its done.  It sounds to me like you played too much sim city and not enough sins.  Sins is about balancing early aggression against you enemy so he cannot expand his empire, all the while expanding your own.   If you allow your opponent to out ECO you its game over, and if you allow him to majorly out FLEET you its game over, so you must constantly watch what your enemy is doing with scouts, so you know what to do.  THERE IS NO ONE WIN ALL STRAT  each game must be played, and stategy is on a case by case basis.  If you want to play in the online matches you must at least have a basic understanding of PVP play, the regular players wait up to 2hrs sometimes to play a game and when "nooobs" are present the games last very little time, it can be quite frustrating.  Dont let that bother you, its just part of the online experience. lol. 

 

p.s.  The egg is dead, Carrier caps are the only way to go early, unless you are surrounded by allies, then maybe and egg..... you cant fight the trend, when 90% of players build 2 carrier caps early game, you have no choice.  good luck

 

Reply #8 Top

just because you got all the neutrals on " your side" doesnt mean you get to relax. it means now you have to go take the neutrals on their side.

Reply #9 Top

Post replay if u can

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Pbhead, reply 8
just because you got all the neutrals on " your side" doesnt mean you get to relax. it means now you have to go take the neutrals on their side.
End of Pbhead's quote

 What I mean by "my side" is that I was on one side of the grav well, my other Vasari teamate on the other. It just so happened that only a few neutrals appeared on this map, two or so on my side, same where he was. What would you purpose I do, ask him nicely to let me take his extractors? He needs them too...

Quoting JohnJames, reply 9
Post replay if u can
End of JohnJames's quote

I don't think I can, for one I have no idea how and the game has probably been lost in my play history.

Reply #11 Top

One strategy that should work is to expand quickly. 1 colony every three minutes in the early game. That is the widely accepted strategy amongst veterans.

Build Carrier Cap first.

Something I've done when playing as Vasari, when I have a Jikantra, I build fighters and upgrade Scramble Bombers. Makes for a good defense and offense.

Research Phase Missile Technology as much as possible.

Get lots of Kanrak Assailants.

Get some Junsurak Sentinels to guard the Kanraks.

Research and deploy the Stilakus Subverter. Very effective versus clusters of enemy ships. Trust me. I know. I've lost many battles this way.

Get as many extractors as you can! When you run out of neutrals, go and take the enemy's.

FIGHT over the neutral extractors. They are critical to the Vasari economy.

Sell your excess resources on the black market for credits. Wait for a good deal, though.

When you raid a heavily fortified enemy base, you are going to need heavy firepower. Get a Kortul Devastator or a Vulkoras Desolator for firepower and a Jarrasul Evacuator for it's abilities. Bring the Skirantra, get some Enforcers, some Lasuraks, and go for it. Save the Destructor's for after the battle is over.

I hope this helped you. Oh, and here's the funny part: I don't play online, and I'm a TEC guy.

Reply #12 Top

Forgot to add: ALWAYS watch your back. Defend the planets closest to the enemy fiercely. Don't let the enemy outflank you.

Reply #13 Top

Yeah, Vasari have the worst trade set up time, and hangars suck as lone defense structures.  Repair Bays are the smarter defense structure, along with some defending fleet.  Your early moves should be Skirantras, Assailants, and then Sentinels.  The Egg might work with small 1v1 against the Advent, but otherwise it will die before too long against the Vasari or the TEC.  Try to get extra scouting done early to capture neutrals and look for likely chokepoints/areas of conflict.  You can always backfill your other worlds for colonization later.  You aren't going to outnumber your enemy in the early game, so you need to seize territory strategically.  If the game is done with faster income rates and you have a very nice choke available, consider a starbase(upgrade defense early) and a phase jump inhibitor.  From there, Subverters and Phase Missiles will make your fleet something fearsome.  After that some Enforcers, maybe Reintegration, add more longevity to your fleet(and perhaps pull enemy bombers off your capital ships).  The Devastator can be a nice addition too, as strikecraft become far more numerous as the game advances. 

Reply #14 Top

What is the "Egg?" I'm not good with terms for the game...

Reply #15 Top

Jarrasul Evacuator.

 

On other sites you might also hear about the Space Whale, or Planet Shaver.

Reply #16 Top

Every time I've used it, it's done wonders for me, unmodded. Love those abilities. Has to be high level though. That's why you send it tanking through militia and light fleets.

lol. "Egg." Now I get it. It does sort of look like an egg.

Reply #17 Top

It's definitely good at nuking militia.  Every 12 seconds you basically cast Doom against another frigate, until antimatter goes down.  And, working with a pack of Assailants with one point in the Gravity Warhead, you can guarantee a cap ship kill if you have a superior force.  The problem with the Egg is that it is a slow and easy target without a good way to repair itself.  The Akkan will be towing Hoshikos with it, while the Mothership will simply use Shield Regeneration to lengthen its lifespan.  But the Egg has nothing to keep it afloat in the early-mid game.  The TEC will have superior numbers of LRM gunning for it, and the Advent will be bombing it relentlessly.  Sentinels won't be able to keep up.  So you either break off the Egg and let it backfill worlds for you, or it gets stuck on defense duty if the lines have been drawn for a build up.

Reply #18 Top

You're right about everything. However, to keep it alive, deploy it as support to other capital ships, like the Skirantra, with Nano Hull Repair. Once it goes down, though, you're in trouble.

Reply #19 Top

If you really want advice, you need to post replays.  It is hard to tell what happened and what the other team saw, which is much more important that what you did.

Reply #20 Top

I agree with post above.

There is no universal recepie to apply to every game. You need to play more games to get experience and feel for how fast and what other people can and will do to be able to counter his game until you get better and you can force your game onto enemy. And above all be flexible to game development.

Only advice that is valid from all games is that you must fight for neutrals and keep scouting so you can react to guy you are playing against in time. If you don't build counters to his fleet he will build them to yours and then its GG.

Another thing 

Don't take it to heart if someone who studied game calls you ....... . And some pro players act as morons anyway.

What I do see wrong sometimes with some new-ish players is that they venture into 5v5 games and when advice from veteran player is offered they decide to ignore it and loose game for whole team.

PS

If you find me online give me a shout and If I don't have especially bad day I will help you. Sometimes I even run comp stomp to show some expansion strategies to people who want to learn.