The State of the Demigod Community–3/5/2011

NT

side note - let's say someone acts like a jerk in game or cheats (desync/host disconnect exploit, for instance).  Let's say you decide to host multiple games immediately after that telling a player to FUG themself.  Suggestion:  1) don't host derogatory game names... I'd be surprized if your account isn't quickly banned after the weekend 2) send an email off to support@stardock.com and explain what happened.  SD is pretty well engaged and monitoring things in the DG community lately.

Thanks Pac !

Well, someone recently made a post in this thread complaining about bans and I, unfortunately, hastily deleted those comments (rough day at work - so my apologies for that).  After a little more thought, I'll briefly address the post (the gist of the post was that its not legal for SD to ban accounts for this and that and that mining users data is acceptable because its "easy"). 

And here is my response:  the demigod community is small.  Its small for a number of reasons. 

One of those reasons is players harassing others on a regular basis.  This often appears in the form of game names harassing other players or harassing folks directly in games.  Sometimes it appears in the form of intentionally lagging a game to make the experience unpleasant for other players.  Most folks play video games as a fun escape from daily life or as an enjoyable pastime.  Some use it as a forum to express their frustrations in life by taking it out on some random individual on the internet for X reason. 

Another reason is because some players exploit game stats.  It sadly became clear that folks could circumvent the stat system using a few different methods.  The difference between players, in this respect, is that while most understand how to use the existing exploits, the majority do not use them.  And the majority that chooses not to exploit are certainly not compelled because they fear their account will be banned.  There's a very basic sense of right and wrong in the existing majority.  That's not to elevate the simple concept to some grand level.  It's simply to say that the majority of us respect the players we have competed against and played alongside enough not to do such things.  As a matter of fact, the majority of us would refuse to play with an individual that is continually willing to cheat.  That's why you often find players like this in 1v1 games. 

And here's where some will disagree, but I'd wager, not the majority of the remaining players.  If stat exploits exist, isn't it the responsibility of Stardock or GPG to fix them? And if those exploits are not fixed, should we bear any responsibility if we use them?  I think the majority of the community would agree that we'd prefer any exploits in Demigod removed.  But if the exploits continue to exist, then what now?  The solution appears to have been warning folks that exploit the system and then banning them if they persist.  After all, if a limited number of individuals are continually causing the trouble in the demigod community and even encouraging those of us that are left to leave (as they have likely done with so many others), wouldn't we all be better off if they ceased their behavior?  Or if they refused - to then remove them from our community? 

And last - it does seem (at least to me) that anyone complaining about users being banned from Demigod was 1) banned from Demigod for their actions or has a friend that was or 2) feels it is their right to harass players or exploit stats in game.  Otherwise, why is there a need to argue these simple concepts?  No one is banned on a whim by Stardock.  If a player did not habitually harass or exploit in game, they would not be banned today.  So, arguing against something that does not apply to you doesn't really serve much of a purpose.  Arguing about something that does, though... but if that case, you are trying to convince folks that its acceptable to harass whoever you want without consequence or exploit stats as you please.  Most of us are not a fan of that behavior.  And that's what the portion of my post on banned accounts was about. 

Why are you deleting posts at will that are not derogatory are you attempting to run a dictatorship on these boards?  It's too bad the terms are not presented to the customer at the time of purchase on the cashiers screen but, even then i'm sure it's way too long to even display.  The ToS is bull due to the attitude of "you agree to let us change this as we see fit and we don't have to tell you about each and every change"  Having to foot the bill of paying for the game before even getting the chance to review these terms and where in-game does the consumer have the ability to agree?  Also, expressing your opinions in game is considered harrasment?  The ToS pretty much states to the consumer we (Stardock) own your online account and will ban it at will anytime without warning.  Looks like they (Stardock) won't be getting my hard earned cash for future purchases.

Let's see how long this stays up before Pacov removes another post that he doesn't see fit.

Yeah, there are definitly things that, i find, kind of messed up.First of, lets say a 13 years old kid buys the game, he finds out that theres a ranking system and he wants to improve his stats. He also finds out that you can cheat the system. Now why wud you think a 13years old kid will act just as righteously as guys who are 30 years old or older. To ban him for something which isnt even is his fault is just wrong. Beacuse it isnt his fault that the game is like that. The only solution cud be that you dont play with him but dont ban him, he payed money for the game...

(Btw: i do not know any of the guys that have been banned and i only commenting on pacovs post and other comments to help you understand my opinion on this matter. This isnt a rant.)

Hey, just a thing my buddy pac. The demigod community is small (i'd rather say tiny...), but not because of harassers, exploiters and/or "cheaters". Sure they're annoying, but there's as much harassing/insulting/verbal abuse as in any other competitive online game, and "cheating"/exploiting is no where as prevalent as to keep players away from DG.

The reason why demigod community is "small" is the absolute failure from SD & GPG to develop and properly support their own game. The only patches that DG got were the ones that brought it to the barely functional state that it should have been at release date. The post release, continued balance and bugfix support that's to be expected from a top profile (and at one time price) game of its genre has been completely non-existant.

The fact that many of us kept playing DG for so long (and some do still play) is a testament for how good the core design and gameplay is, but that doesn't hide the failure of SD & GPG in polishing the rough gem they had in their hands.

I'm sorry but that's how i feel towards DG, the game has been too stale for too long. I've replaced DG with LoL, that while being a worse game at its core, at least it's properly supported and cared for in an almost weekly basis, all that while being a free-to-play game. I'd say there's a lesson for SD & GPG to learn from.

Sorry you feel that way.  Consider the whole "expressing your opinions in game is considered harassment" statement.  What exactly do you feel constitutes harassment then?  For some reason, I doubt someone was banned for telling someone they made a mistake.  Perhaps maybe there's something in my wording when i say "habitually harass or exploit."  Happy to have a conversation with you here if you are even interested in that sort of thing. 

I appreciate you taking the time to make a constructive post on the topic.  The general practice is that folks using exploits are usually avoided by community members after more and more folks hear that X person exploits.  There's generally a warning after that.  And following that, a ban if SD deems it appropriate.  I am personally aware of 0 bans that have taken place without some sort of warning (even though the terms of use indicate that SD can ban as they see fit). 

It still doesn't seem like much of a thing to be all that concerned about.  Folks that are banned are habitually stirring up trouble or cheating.  Folks that are not, are not. 

Well, I personally wouldn't word it in so negative a fashion, but there is certainly some truth in what you say.  I'm reasonably confident that the majority of us left had hopes of seeing more fixes/polishing/new maps, etc.  And I completely agree that those of us that have been active players for such a long time are still here as a testament to the core design and gameplay.  But, just to backtrack, the topic is on the current state of the demigod community.  And while you are certainly right the we've lost the majority of the population in our game due to bugs/exploits (and certainly some folks that simply play a game for a bit and move on), what we've had recently is a small group of folks that choose to harass others on a regular basis and exploit however they saw fit.  So, while your assertion is generally correct, that assertion really doesn't mean that folks should be allowed to habitually harass others and exploit in game as they like. 

And you're right, no reason to allow the usual suspects to harass/exploit/etc.

I just don't want the random, passing-by reader to understand DG has a small player base due to exploiters/cheaters/harassers, as it could somewhat be read from your previous post (although that wasn't your intention). That's far from the truth.

I wanted to point out both the hit and miss that DG is (was... ) in design(success) and development/support(utter failure imho), respectively. Anyway, cheers pacbro.

Fair enough, nom. 

If I'm not mistaken, all banning does is prevent you from accessing the Stardock Servers for Demigods. So, to use an analogy: If you don't play nicely with others, Stardock doesn't take your toys away, they simply don't let you come over to their house to play. That seems fair to me.

community is going strong?

this place is a ghost town man.  is there a place people are congregating to play besides through the game/custom?  If so hook me up because starting a game there is like *insert appropriate analogy*

What's wrong with game custom? Even though there are, but not many people are elsewhere either.

Also, if you need to invite any players into the game, I could join, BUT usually you should invite me through ventrilo server as in game pm chat doesn't have sounds, so I hear nothing while doing something else.

As for amount of players in custom games. Most are at evening (Europe time). Not huge amount, but there are games to choose at least.

Tagging so I remember to reply

Heya Leth,

Yeah it's been awhile since there has been a crowd to get 2vs2 or 3vs3 Pantheon games going.

What I normally do is just check the lobby from my browser before signing in.

Bookmark this page, it will save you lots of trouble idling for a game.

http://www.demigodthegame.com/opengames.asp