This is What We Need

mind telling us whats it about because i don't like downloading things with out knowing what they are.

The title of the document is "ModdersGuide.PDF."  I really can't offer much more detail than that.

Kael provides a detailed description how to mod for Civ5 .. interesting stuff Would be nice if the devs and not the Com would prepare at least a basic document to start with - they have normally for sure an internal document for all the items

I completely agree.  75% of modding right now is trying to figure out how everything works and relates to each other.  A document like that eliminates the guesswork and lets the community spend that wasted time in actual creativity and implementation.

Never mind how absolutely frustrating it is muddling through the existing XML, especially when you do not know that what you are attempting can even be accomplished.

just need Frog to tell us which what XMLs do what then we right.... all i know of now is a can really only add a few things not really make anything new.

While I agree it certainly would be nice if Frogboy or another dev created a massive modding guide, I feel like they all have more important things to work on at the moment. Get the base game to a point where most people are happy with it (and not experiencing crashes and whatnot), then accomadate us modders.

I'd prefer good wiki rather than single guide. Speaking of which, is there any for EWoM?

http://elementalwarofmagic.wikidot.com/

So far though, nobody actually uses it.

If a game is advertised

When a game is advertised as being 'moddable' or 'modders friendly' the least a publisher can do is provide the tools to use that portion of the game; and this includes proper documentation.  However it's a common practice in the industry to let the community figure things out - it cuts on the production costs.  Personally I find that detestable.

EDIT: I would pay for a full Editor Suite, sold separately, and containing a full blown manual replete with examples on how to do something; instead of having to scrounge this and other boards to piece up the necessary information.  Add to this an interface that allows the player to *not* have to muddle through XLM file structure and I would pay even more.  Players come up with such things in a flash (witness Elementerra and the Faction editor) - I don't understand why Stardock can't - and make a profit out of it.

G.

Again, they need to get the base game into something pretty much everyone is happy with before they work on extras. Modding is great, but the vanilla game needs to be good first. Up until release, they had plans to release a bunch of tool and documentation within a month or two after release, but that for obvious reasons got thrown out the window. The actual game needs to take precedence, and that is what they did.

Not to mention that with all of the engine updates they've had to do to make the game better, any documentation they release now will probably be worthless in a month when 1.1 is released.

^^^^
This.

I think that mods are going to be limited to appearance altering stuff for the most part.  Campaign/scenario mods will be difficult for a while because of the sweeping changes that are forthcoming.

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Yeah, writing docs for work-in-progress while API and data formats still change is mostly wasting your time and money. Besides, lack of scripting of any kind makes serious modding impossible anyway, and we have to wait till python api/C++ SDK anyway.

As opposed to all the time being wasted now on mods that can become obsolete for the same reasons?  Oh, but this is the community's time, not the company's time, so that makes it alright, I suppose.  For the record, I agree.  This is why I'm in a holding pattern on my mod. 

But this does not change the fact that this is something we need.  It can be a WIP until they have finalized everything internally, but we really do need SOMETHING.  I.e. if resources are solid, give us everything we need on resources.  Same for buildings, quests, weapons, armor, etc.  As it is right now, I feel like the modding community is a neglected stepchild.

Also, Stardock can draw a line in the sand for backwards compatability, particularly since they are using XML.  It's very simple to support the future formats along with legacy formats when you are parsing XML.

You guys do realize that you're asking Stardock to make a guide that in the Civ V universe was created by a modder right?  Is there a Firaxis guide?

Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I'd rather you enticed Kael over here and got him to write it

Perhaps not yet though, I'm with Kyogre on this - I don't mind if modding/modding guides wait until the base game settles down a bit. Graphics additions aside, anything that alters gameplay now will just have to be redone anyway after official updates change the vanilla gameplay.

I don't believe that I ever mentioned that we needed Stardock to write it.  I simply stated that it's what we need.  Unless, of course, you want to hire me since i live right off of Pontiac Trail and M-5. 

There are plenty of talented souls here who would love to contribute, I am sure.  All I know is that there are a lot of modders just chomping at the bit, but they're stuck in quicksand.  As it stands right now, there seems to be quite a bit of XML that gets picked apart piece by piece, and then a roadblock is hit, and there is no way to get past that roadblock.  There also seems to be so many tags that are either obsolete or we have no idea what they actually do.

It's an uphill, fruitless battle.  There seems to be more speculation than answers.  You even posted a thread requesting mod example suggestions that is 15 or so pages long, but I haven't seen anything come of it yet.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what you guys are doing.  And I get it.  You guys are busy.  But there is nothing more frustrating than wasting a couple/few hours trying to figure out what a single tag does, only to find out that it doesn't do anything.

A weekly one hour Q&A? A forum dedicated to XML tags and code snippets that's monitored?  We need to get tossed a bone every once in a while.

Perhaps it is presumptious of me to suggest this, as I still havn't figured out XML, etc., yet.  However, what about having the community here create and update our own mod guide.  This, i suspect, is happening 'informally' as verious grooups have boned and are working together on various modding projects.

Might SD allocate a place here in the forums, for the players to start building a guide? Just a crazy idea...

With Kael being hired at Stardock, was this post some kind of premonition?? 

I only said that I wanted the guide, not the whole damn guy. 

Congrats, Kael!