[New Idea] [Lore]I can has flavour text?

 I was asking myself why I still play games like Age of Wonders, Lords of Magic, Master of Magic and even Magic the Gathering, despite them being just as buggy, imbalanced and all the rest of it even after all these years. And I realised one thing all of those games have, which Elemental currently lacks, is personality. I'm not playing MoM because it's a fine example of game crafting, I'm playing it because for a few hours I can actually feel like a despotic Necromancer ruling a nation of Halfling slaves.

 In Elemental by comparison, playing Capitar feels no different to playing Tarth. You get slightly different looking people, and a different set of (currently non-working) bonuses, but there's no sense of being the Sovereign of Capitar. For all intents and purposes, you may as well call them Kingdom 1, Kingdom 2, Empire 1, Empire 2 and so forth.

The one thing all my examples have in common that brings this out is the oft underestimated flavour text. It's why Magic the Gathering can build a wonderful world despite only interacting with the player via the medium of baseball cards. It's why Lords of Magic got away with a spell tree that was virtually identical for every race.

 The flavour text, usually a quote from a resident in the world, lets the player 'see through the eyes' if you like of the people in the game. It gives context to a feature that a simple description of the game rules can't. We already saw this in GalCiv II when you clicked on the planet details and got a vox pop from a resident telling you just what he thought of life on the planet.

So my first idea - any time you're explaining something to the player, whether it's an entry in the Herigamon, the pop up for successful spell research or the character sheet of an NPC, there should be a quote from a resident of the gameworld giving a little insight into how they view the subject. So if I research say Flame Dart, there's a small two line quote on the pop up that appears from a Loremaster referencing how the tales mention the Titans were capable of throwing flame from their hands or similar.

And my second is to take it a step further. Lords of Magic got away with a spell list which duplicated spells almost as much as Elemental because for each race's spell, the name and flavour text would be different. So the movement buff for the elves (life) spoke of moving through the hidden paths of the wood, while the barbarians (Chaos) spoke of walking through the spirit world. It was the same for every spell - an attack spell for Life would talk of manipulating the life energy of the target, while Chaos would talk of trying to persuade the spirits to attack on your behalf. This helped build up a theme and sense of diversity despite the otherwise generic spell list - with Chaos you began to understand how their view of the world differed from that of the Life or Water people.

 So maybe these quotes could be changed depending on who you're playing. Let's take Capitar and Tarth for example. You open the house entry in the Heirgamon, and you get the usual description of what the house is and how it works. At the bottom we have our flavour quote, as Capitar you see a quotation from Procipinee talking about building shelter for the desperate. As Tarth however it's a quote from an anonymous source saying something like "A true warrior needs only the stars above his head and his cloak for shelter. The rest of us prefer to sleep dry" (I assume Tarth are the warrior types judging by their description). It's a pretty minor change, but it brings out a sense of who the faction is and how they view the world which will tend to bring them to life far more than any amount of stat changes or bonuses. And we're not actually changing anything about the game (though it might be nice to do so later to bring out the themes of the nations more), just adding a couple of lines of text to a page.

 

And I know we already have these for NPC's, but what you really need for this to work is a unifying theme that brings out the feel of each and every nation. The NPC's texts tell you about the NPC, but by necessity they need to be generic.

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Reply #1 Top

I generally  agree.   Adding  a true  sense of  wonder makes  a movie, game,  book,  etc. It  makes it  special, personable  and immerses you  into  the  story.

 

Having  the  same  phrase  spoken  by  a bandit about you in the  wilds  makes the  game  more vanilla. It  would  VERY  easy  to  add a few dozen  various  text  statements  to  give  the  NPC interaction  more  flavor. 

This  game   has  enormous  potential;  the  sad  thing is  that  the so-so reviews that  are  starting  to  pop  in  will not  reflect the  quality of  what  the  game  and  this  amazing  community  will  end  up  with (I hope).  Everyone  may  not  read  reviews,  but  they  can  glance  at  a C+  or  a  70. 

 

Positives-   Yes!  the  game  has  an  addicting  quality, and I  was  very  surprised  by  the  ease of use of the  mod  tools. Besides posted  gripes, I  like  the  battle  screens. I still think  that  a pure money  reward  could  be  mixed  with  a left or   fallen  weapon/item.  I  also  like  the  technology  tree.  Very well  done. Sophisticated, yet  simple  to  apply. It is  a lot  of  fun  to  see your  city  build  in  strength  and  character.The one  more  turn enticement  is  true.

Some  negatives.  Graphics  look  unfinished in a  few  ways. Though  they  are  nice (Sorry, but  they  have  very  little  relevance to Alphonse Maria Mucha (who  designed the poster for  the 1904  World's  Fair)), as stated in  dev. journals. Some of  the  landscape graphics  look like  they  are  cookie-cuttered onto  the  land  (like those old-fashioned   candy  buttons  on  paper), They  seem placed and  not  a part of  the  landscape. This  helps  lower the  flavor  of the game.

On a  side  note  (from an  ex-game  developer's point  of  view),  if  releasing  early  was not  a financial issue,  than    putting  out an incomplete Elemental game  was IMHO  a  bad call. This  is  an  assumption  on my  part,  but  it will  directly  affect  the  in-coming  reviews.

Other  gripes  have  been  posted  before by  others,  so  I  will  not  add.

 

Can't  wait  to  see where Elemental  is  headed...  looking  forward to  `the  ride.'

Cheers

 

 

 

Reply #2 Top

 To be honest I quite like the art style. More unique dialogues would be nice; replacing Janusk with a faction specific councillor might also be an idea.

Reply #3 Top

It's not  that  I  dislike  the  art, as I  said  in  another post, it  does  grow  on you and it's  VERY  professional.  But  I  would  have  liked  to  see  a lot  more  variety and  dazzle... to  give it  that  `sense of  wonder.'   And  if  you're going  to  base the  visual  styling on Alphonse Mucha, who  was  an amazingly stylized illustrator and Art Nouveau painter, I  would  have  loved to  see  more of  this `feel', especially, in the  flat  2D  art.  This  would  have  IMHO  elevated  the  graphics  to  a less mundane  level. 

definitely  agree  on  more  text dialogues.  Lots  more! And  add finished  and  better  synchronized  battle  animations (the boulder kills  before  hitting?)


Cheers

 

 

Reply #4 Top

You know what's scary? Now that you've mentioned all of the copy-cat spells in Lords of Magic, I realized it.

Like, Justice Barrage or somesuch for the Order tree...and the Fire nation got some sort of fire storm. Both were multi-hit spells covering an area. But aside from looking different (fire threw fire, Order used, I dunno, spiritual strength).

What I'd do...is take Elemental to that degree. Not only add flavor text, but make it possible for spells, buildings, etc. to be unique. Each faction is in DIRE need of having some various stuffs about them to make, as you said, playing Tarth =/= Capitar =/= Pariden.

But flavor text...yes, that's a must.

When I was playing AoW 2, Wizard's throne, I was actually angry that they took out the flavor text for units and leaders.

SIDENOTE - reading the description of a normal unit says "A peon with a stick." Yeah, that's not fun. Keep that as the default, I guess, but let us players edit and write a short description of that unit and how it pertains to our faction.

For example - I made the Starstriders, a group of rangers for my faction. It would've been nice to say, "The Starstriders were born out of a need to understand the vast lands surrounding the Adest capital. While most prefer to fight at range, some train exclusively in the use of old fencing techniques, even developing their own style of hit-and-run that matches the quickness and lethality of their archers."

Reply #5 Top

So basically all the actors in Elemental are wearing the same costumes and saying the same lines.  I wonder what Shakespeare would have thought of that.

Reply #6 Top

SUPER DOUBLE EXTRA SECOND THIS!

Adding flavor text would help this game sooooo much!

Reply #7 Top

Definitely  agree  with  the  more  and  varied text,  thought  I  doubt  this  will be  an  issue  before  the bug fixes (my two  games  crashed  in 1.07, so they  are  still out there), as well  as balancing and graphical  issues. I'm  hoping by Jan. or Feb. for them  to add improved content. And if it's  sooner, then it's  a  cool  surprise.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Eisenhund, reply 5
So basically all the actors in Elemental are wearing the same costumes and saying the same lines.  I wonder what Shakespeare would have thought of that.
End of Eisenhund's quote

 

"Yet another means to torture third grade English students" probably ;)

 

Quoting Nathikal, reply 4
You know what's scary? Now that you've mentioned all of the copy-cat spells in Lords of Magic, I realized it.
End of Nathikal's quote

Yup, they're almost all the same. Because you're locked in to one tree (at least initially) depending on faction, and because they all have unique names and descriptions you don't really realise it while playing.

 Although if you go through it, even AoW and MoM duplicate their spells to an extent with a similar trick; though they utilise different damage types in addition to further distinguish them. I'm fairly sure if you were to eliminate every spell in either game that did the exact same thing as another spell (albeit with a different damage source or whatever) you'd probably have a spell list no larger than Elemental has at present, yet while you're playing it feels like you've got sixty or more unique spells to throw around.