I just got the repitition on the fourth try, I have no idea how many maps there are. But take a look at the maps folder: There are only 7 seed files for "small" and 6 for "tiny". Only 2 for "large" and 4 for "medium". So I assume that's the number of maps (there are even small pictures of the maps in the folder) available

About "taking out the seeds": I assume that the map script wasn't optimzed in any way regarding coherence of landscapes or starting locations (otherwise why not use it as random map generator?), so this is not really an option. You probably get a lot of basically unplayable maps. I didn't try it yet, though.

Edit: I did try it (deleted the seed files in the maps folder) and it seems to generate random maps. They don't look good, though, and I'm not sure whether they are playable. Can you cross mountains or use ships? If not, they are unplayable due to huge mountain ranges blocking several parts of the map. But even if they are playable, they are evidently not enjoyable. It was the right decision not to use this random map generator, but it was the wrong decision not to improve it until it works.

How about somebody tries and tells us how it worked out then?

As stated above I can't play yet (sittin at work) but it would be good to know if that actually "fixes" the problem somehow.

Todd:

Really?  The wrong decision not to include completely random maps?  I can see the draw of random maps, but unfortunately I've played too many Civilization games (as one example) where you get an hour or two in only to find out you (or the AI, thus killing any real challenge) were royally screwed by the map generator and have to restart.  Or maybe you think its actually EASY to get a random function to generate a usable result every time?  If so, then let me have you address so I can send the nice men in white suits to take you to where you can spend your days in peace and serenity.

I have to agree here we HAVE TO HAVE RANDOM MAPS. I don't like downloading strangers maps in fact I won't. I only trust official sites and offical maps or random generated maps. This is one of those options and fixes that must be implemented and soon. This is the kind of crap Triumph Studios did when they made Age of Wonders. No random maps or anything in the first game and then finally putting them in the last version AOW:SM. If it doesn't have random I don't usually buy it and I did buy this game on the presumption it would have random maps generated.

I have to say, this is a pretty huge disappointment.

I try not to be a negative person and I'm honestly not trying to be some whinging kid here, but as somebody said, this removes one of the Xs from the 4X genre.

If I had known there was not going to be procedurally generated maps it would have drastically affected my decision to buy the game. To only find out after my purchase that a game touted as a 4X game is missing an important part is very disappointing.

There is a very big psychological (gameplay) difference between playing a map you have played before and exploring a map that has never existed before. Even downloading somebody else's map and exploring that has a significantly different feeling to exploring a map that is unknown to anybody.

@Nessin: No, I don't think game design is easy. That's why game designers get to make a living from it.

It's a little bit like a roguelike not having randomized dungeons. But it's probably not too hard to add at least a lot more seeds? Anyway this isn't the biggest issue for me with the game. However I can see this as a considerate problem for people who will play this game a lot.

Thank you for your constructive feedback.

I'm a long time Civ player (just played my last game this weekend) and I honestly cannot remember what you describe ever happening to me. Sometimes the starting conditions are a bit harsh but even that happens only one game out of 50. Sorry, but the map generator of Civ (4) is very good and I think Stardock are competent enough to be able to implement a reasonably good one. At least give us the option to write map scripts like in Civ 4, then we could build our own scripts from which procedural maps might be created. Hey, actually that might be an idea: An external program that writes a XML seed file for Elemental. I'm surely not going to do this (lack of knowledge and time) but maybe there is a modder out there who will? I'd rather have official random maps, though.

This is a deal breaker for me - no random land masses?  Guess I'll save my 50 bucks for something else.

You can cross mountains and bridges, yes. Plus there's also spells for raising and lowering the land so you can even make a mountain disappear if you need to. I think I'll be deleting the "seeds" as well (though I'll save them in another folder).

I'd say Stardock will fix this issue given enough time. If there's one thing they know it's Strategy Games and any Strategy Gamer knows how incredibly important it is to have random maps. At the very least they'll give us a shit ton of maps in a "Map Pack", and if not, there are plenty of "Good" modders out there ready and willing to make Epic Maps *coughMecough* .

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I feel the same way and am strongly considering passing on the game now that I was getting very excited for.  Randomly generated maps is an absolute must for a game like this.  Exploration is my favorite part.  Perfect balance is secondary.  I enjoy having to adapt to the circumstances I ended up with due to a random map generator.  If it's too horribly bad I can always restart.

Well then you could try deleting the seeds in the map folder. Todd tried it and maps were random. So now it'll be a matter of trying out how playable they are.

I'll try it out too asap.

I don't want to have to rely on PLAYER PATCHES, I PURCHASED(actually PRE-PURCHASED) this game to fund my DEVELOPER to build a game as expected. (ok, expectations are all on perception...but seriously, when the word comes out "...but your fellow players can..." Means typically "we were too lazy to do it, or it was too hard, or that woud cut in on profits so we are going to release it as-is on a "feature"".

I am truely disappointed, as Stardock use to stand for something different.  Starting to sound like its falling suit to competitor's models of profit margins, not artistic expression/quality/passion.

But then again, I guess $ rules the world.

I'm glad you've never encountered those problems in the past, I have numerous times.  And I'm talking about all the Civ games.  Of course a game (Civilization 4) with over a decade of refinement is going to have a better map generate script that a game with a lot less (Elemental), especially when one game (Civilization 4) has very little concern with adding new content whereas the other (Elemental) has to built from the engine on up.  And somehow, despite that you can still get screw ups with Civilization 4 map generation.

On the other hand, consider this, you specifically spelt out Civilization 4.  You're comparing a game with a development crew (at least partially) who has been working on it for years upon years upon years upon years, with a enormous community following providing feedback over the entire life of it to a game that is just now being released and whose players have had less than 24 hours to see its final form.  Yeah, so about the address for the loony bin crew?

It is impossible to not have expectations of a game you are looking forward to, and one that is being made by good people (I think Stardock has great people).  But I feel really disappointed too.  You need to make sure that the core components are in at release.  And even though CivIV's random map generation is not perfect, it doesn't give the exact same terrain and starting positions.  On hindsight, not having a "tutorial tutorial" or a "tutorial campaign" is a pretty big thing missing because a lot of people simply did not play the beta and there has been no demo yet.  And so is reasonably "random/pseudo random non-identical maps" which are missing.  I had, up until the release and people trying out the near-final release of Elemental, considered it almost certain that I would upgrade to the LE, and that Elemental would be a great game at release.  Now I'm not sure on either, and suspect that the game did need at least a month more work on some core elements.  I understand it is hard when you only have two launch windows a year, but how the game starts off *does* have a big influence on how successful the modding component can be, and how much interest the game has long-term.  The initial release is the time when you "grab" the attention of people and get a good head-start.  Hindsight is 20/20 I know, but I think in this case it would have been better to wait until the next launch window and have at least one more playable beta.

As I said at the start, it is impossible to not have expectations of a game you are looking forward to, made by good people.  But you do need to have a generally good start to do well in a lot of things.  And first impressions are very important, because they set the benchmark or "average" for what can be expected as a general guide for the future.

Ok...so compare the map generator/editor of Sins of a Solar Empire(instead of Civ4) vs. Elemental....doh!

While not a deal breaker, this is very disappointing.  With the recent downtime, I had perused through many of the Elemental videos to review the past year.  Completely random maps was a component that was mentioned and was a focus, and it feels a bit disingenuous (almost misleading) that it was not mentioned after beta and prior to release that they would not be making the final cut.  To me, this is one of the singlemost imperative components of an empire-building turn-based strategy game, particularly in regards to replayability.

I am missing something...why do you keep regenerating the map? Have you finished a game already that you need to start again?

Most of these 4x games take a while to complete, usually days. This looks like a major complaint so stardock will atleast release a bunch of seeded maps and that should be available in the next update. That will keep most people busy until the they get to looking a random map generator. I agree that a random map generator is require as exploration is part of game and a major component to the game.

However, my point is you should still be playing the first map you generated and not regenerating the maps. Try different size maps until there are new seeded maps.

the back of the box literally says "Randomly generated world, rich in history and ripe for conquest, make each game a new experience."  How can it say that and not have random maps?

I completely agree with you.

Quit bitching, if you want true random maps you can delete/move the seeds in the folder and get fully random maps. But Dont complain if they are not balanced in any way shape or form.

Very well spoken.  If a game doesn't have that innitial "bang" then you have a much smaller pool of people who are willing to actually play the game which means, too, that you have a much smaller pool of people who will mod the flaws out of the game as well.  Unfortunately, as of now, it certainly doesn't have the bang.  That's not to say that it couldn't have, but I think the dev team took a gamble with the hope that they would get what they needed into the game after they made a comitment to that retail spot.   

Sorry folks, I spent some time generating random maps and they are really, really, really bad. Try it yourselves. Deleting the seeds unfortunately is not the solution.

To those who asked me why I looked at several maps already: Why not? Because I wanted to know how they look like. If I (or others) hadn't done this, the problem wouldn't have surfaced until a few weeks later but the problem would still be the same, so what does it matter?

@ Nessin: There are so many games by professionals and indies - even OpenSource games - that have adequate map generators. If you don't want to believe that and would rather stick with fixed maps because you think that Stardock are unable to implement a random generator... well, so be it.

i second this thread. if civ can do it, so should this. it definately was one of the major purchasing points for me, the promise of essentially unlimited replayability. wont add more to this discussion but my support.

In this case, we have a right to complain. I've been following this game for a year and took part in the beta. It was clearly stated many times that the worlds would be randomly generated. Knowing Brad's fondness for Master of Magic and the Civilization series, I thought the randomization in Elemental would be similar. I was very excited. I've already spent my money, but my hope is that a fix will come soon. Looking forward to hearing from someone at Stardock about how this issue will be handled in the future.

Have they actually announced this? I haven't seen it yet.

Yes, it may take a couple of days before you tried each of the maps, but if I end up seeing the same map a third time before they do it, I may put down the game and just play Civ V as that comes out next month.

Yes, you can delete the seeds, to have it unbalanced - which they say is a bigger issue in this game, than say with Civ, so you don't want to do that.