Tormy answered your question.

This game is not a srs business multiplayer games guys. Its single player focused. Stardock has said from the very beginning this game is all about the single player. Multiplayer just happens to be there.

Sometimes, it helps to know what you're trying to suggest. Tormy's ideas for features had nothing to do with "finding people to play with", which is what you posted as wanting. "Clan support" has nothing to do with finding people to play with, and everything to do with in-game management of clans, such as clan tags/names (as Tormy suggested), group matchmaking, etc.

As ThreeKings pointed out, most of that stuff is easily done out of the game. The main issues are that it uses your Impulse login, and there's no way to attach a "clan" tag without changing your global username, and that it probably won't have group matchmaking. If Impulse::Reactor is going to be meant as a serious competitor to Steamworks, SD will have to consider things like these.

But for Elemental? There aren't going to be nearly enough people playing in organized clans and tournaments to warrant development time on these features. Maybe if there is big demand post-release they'll add it, as Frogboy said they're saving budget for MP additions if they're needed. But doing these up-front, and then ending up with nobody using them, is a waste of time and money. The game itself needs to appeal to clan play before clan support features make sense, it doesn't work the other way around. FPS and RTS games easily lend themselves to clan play, but TBS are traditionally played single-player by the majority of the players, and slapping these kinds of MP features on it isn't going to change that fact at all.

He's right.

I think you are being purposefully obtuse... How do clans have nothing to do with finding people? I'll spell it out for you: By playing in a clan, you have a pool of people ready to play with you. You don't have to waste time finding a bunch of random folks to play with when you are in a clan. Do you understand now?

It seems my sarcastic comment from before went over your head. Yes, it could be easily done outside of the game. But so can in-game chat. Should we take that out too? Or achievements? Maybe instead of Impulse tracking achievements the player should just have a piece of paper and write them down when he obtains them.

The purpose of a feature like clan support (or in-game chat, or achievements) is to augment and enhance the MP experience. Of course I can call up my friends with my phone and arrange a time to play Elemental on such and such a date. However, it would be so much easier if a framework existed inside the game that would facilitate and streamline this process.

No one is asking for clan support NOW. No one is asking for tournaments NOW. Everyone who is in the beta knows that Stardock is saving resources for multiplayer features later down the line. Clan support would be one of these features that could potentially receive these resources. And again, why are you assuming Elemental will have tournaments, matchmaking and arena type play like other games? Nowhere did I or anyone else in this thread imply that Elemental would have the same kind of competitive scene like Starcraft 2. Elemental has the option of following its own path with regards to multiplayer. Match stats, ladders etc... may look completely different when applied to a game like Elemental.

The whole point behind this clan support idea came from my experience playing Sins where online play simply died because the framework for a MP community wasn't there. How am I supposed to arrange and play a 5 hour match with a bunch of strangers? Clan support has an answer to that. That is why Stardock has a chance of making an excellent MP experience despite the fact that it is largely a SP game.

We plan to work on Elemental for as long as it's profitable.

And since we code it ourselves, we can implement all the ideas we and the community want to do.

Which still doesn't have anything to do in-game. You don't find a clan in-game. You find it out of game, and play with them. You're not prevented from doing this by not having the game somehow magically find you a clan. You just say "Hey, I play at around this time, who else that plays around there wants to start a clan?" on the forums or chat and yay? This is how it works in games that *have* clan support features. 

But you already can. You can hit shift+tab and add your friends as friends on Impulse, then you can chat with them and send them PMs and all that sorts of fun stuff. What else do you want? A personal calendar in the overlay for you and your friends to mark a day and time for a game? That's pointless.

It doesn't matter how match stats, ladders, etc "look" in Elemental. They exist for the sole purpose of competition. If competition doesn't exist ladders are irrelevant, and stats are irrelevant. Elemental following its own path doesn't mean shoehorning it into a system used by RTS games.

Sins was an RTS game. A much slower one, but an RTS still. It drew more RTS and competitive players. Elemental is a TBS, it draws from a different pool of gamers, with some overlap. The two are not directly comparable. Also, again, clan support has little to do with arranging games. That's what the friends system is for - which already exists.

Judging by your reply, I am starting to think that you've never been in a clan or guild. I can't sit here and type out all of the benefits of playing in a clan when you keep reducing them to their most basic form and saying 'you can already do that'. The sum of its parts are greater than the whole and until you understand that there will be no point in continuing this discussion.

Lol. Elemental is a SINGLE PLAYER FOCUSED GAME. Its not some big multiplayer title.

besides clan-friendly games always get ruined by..........wait for it............clans.   Clans belong in WoW, Eve and every run-of-the-mill FPS shooter......not games like Elemental.

I've seen enough games get destroyed by the ueber-competitive crowd that "clan-friendly" games tend to attract to last a lifetime.  Sure, some of you will argue "but making it clan-friendly will attract a multitude of people".......etc. etc......yes all the wrong people, the people who will then form an "elitist-community" and run-off anyone new who "doesn't know shit" (ala World in Conflict).   Of course then those "clannies" will show up on the forums bitching and whining that "omg.....this game is dead.......why devs?....you've killed this game".  Finally, when the clans have stomped every bit of life out of the game.......then they'll move on to the next poor sucker of an MP game.

My vote is to NOT make Elemental clan-friendly at all.  In fact.....if the game finds out you are in a clan......it needs to send you a nice taser-like electric shock through your mouse.....hehe 

On the contrary, I've been in plenty of clans. But the reason there's no point in continuing this discussion is because you don't even know what you're trying to ask for. Rght now, at this very moment, there's absolutely *nothing* stopping you from finding a group of people that play at the same time as you, making a clan/guild/whateveryouwanttocallit, and start playing with them as soon as Elemental comes out.

You're acting as if a "clan" doesn't exist anywhere other than a system a game creates for it. You know what? Clans have been around for looooooong before any game said "Hey, why don't we let players list a clan tag in our MP system" and they worked just fine. There are certainly many benefits to the more recent clan features in popular games, but here's the kicker: those games are meant to be played in a competitive setting by groups of people. That's why all those features are there, and are beneficial.

EU3 isn't balanced. If it the Paradox crowd is around, lacking balance won't be an issue provided its not just a 2 vs 2, 4 vs 4 brawl. It doesn't sound like Elemental is going to be like that (a giant ongoing brawl) to me.

Did I miss the memo that turned this into the hate on anybody who plays a game with friends thread?

How exactly is that what I said?  I said clan-friendly.  Clans are generally more than friends.  For *many* (if not most) clans it's about being competitive not just playing with friends.

nice try at putting words in my mouth though.......

The hostility in this thread to multiplayer is palatable.

I've got nothing against Multiplayer, but people need to realize when something just isn't applicable. No amount of clan features will turn Elemental into a game that will attract a lot of clans. The overlay chat/friends system already makes it very easy to get together with friends to play.

I have to say that I don't see a need for this and that is coming from someone with a major MP emphasis. Clans, ladders and such are maybe best organized outside the game IF a need arises. Will Elemental become a major MP franchise? It is possible but I don't think it will fill that particular niche.

MP balance is important in a game like Elemental. Games like Europa Universalis are not balanced in MP because they are based on history. History is not balanced. No matter how you twist it, Portugal will never go toe to toe with France and yet both are viable "factions" if you will.

In Elemental, you start from scratch. No one starts with huge swathes of land at their disposal so balance is easier to attain. Not easy, but easier. The people at Stardock are smart enough to know that if they cannot themselves achieve satisfactory MP balance they can safely place it in the hands of the community. That way they can focus the game on where they want to pour their energies - singleplayer.

The one thing I'd put on my wish list is to implement random maps for MP at some point. A large part of the excitement of the game is exploring, discovering a hidden cache of resources and building up your power and influence with it. If everyone knows where the resources are, the lay of the land, etc. it takes a very important element out of the game.

Not to disagree with your rant, but you are using the wrong term. You're hating on a particular type of player, competitive elitist metagamers, which is ok - but they are not synonymous with clans or clan support. True that forming clans is a common trait of such players, but there are plenty of such players that play games without clan support, and plenty of clans that really are just friends playing together. Hate the player, not the clan.

Right because all games that deal with history are not balanced... guess 2K missed that memo

Ha. Do you mean Civilization? That is historically themed but it is not historical. I will assume you haven't heard of the Europa Universalis series. It attempts to allow you to recreate history and more or less accurately portrays historical countries down to historical provinces. As such, large and wealthy France is going to blow away other factions. For example, let's say France has 25 provinces and has an income of 800 ducats/year. Little Portugal might have 6 and an income of 200. When you throw manpower values in there the scenario becomes extremely one sided.

Historically themed games like Colonization or Civilization can achieve balance. Historical simulations can not.

Luckily, Elemental is neither.

Haven't heard of? Did you even read what i wrote? I brought up the series myself. Portugal can take over the world because starting EU3 is just a snapshot in time. ANything can happen after that.

Highly unlikely. And nigh impossible in a multiplayer game, unless you are playing with idiots.

Besides that, this was about faction balance. While it IS possible for Portugal to take over the world, you can hardly claim that Portugal is on par with other factions overall. It is not. Looking over multiplayer games, it is always the same few countries in the lead.

Perhaps you are playing with the same people which would explain why you see the same countries? Also, the goal of EU and Crusaders isn't necssarily to take over the world. In fact I play portugal all the time. I've seen England taken down, damn near wiped out until I allied with them. You want to preach this oh EU3 is historical so this could never happen. BS. It's clear you barely read what I wrote. And MP balance is not as important as you think it is. Hell you use one of the most popular Civ Mods introduces imbalance to the game. I guess MP balance is only important if your goal is to destroy everyone as quick as possible. My group, we're a lot more laid back. We just enjoy the game.

And the number of people playing that mod multiplayer is a rounding error compared to the people playing normal Civ multiplayer.

MP balance is important if your goal is to not have most people just use the most powerful faction every game because it's the most powerful faction.

Your not going to get that in Elemental, and it's not necsesary anyway. If your friends and you are only after playing the most powerful faction, then you are probably better off with games designed for megagamers anyway. By the way, most people won't be playing this MP so by your logic, Stardock shouldn't give a rip what you want... right?