Just Like Auschwitz

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aren't palestinians also semites?  

Leauki, forgot the bananas!  LOOK AT THAT KANAFI! 

Leauki, if you could smuggle out an authetic kanafi (sp?) recipe and not one from the internet.  The place that is a little ways after the Damacus gate that sells it recipe.

Actually on closer inspection I don't think that is Kanafi.  I think the one picture has it only some what in it.

You are right though after living there and from what I have seen.

"Palestinians" are an artificial construct created by the adoption of the European name for a middle-eastern country.

_Arabs_ are Semites just like Israelites (Jews).

Why?

You know, I know the place, I think. I have usually entered the Old City through Damascus Gate and know all the shops just after.

Does that mean you're going to smuggle me the kanafi recipe?

You know, I'll try.

He was trying to discredit you by mis-direction.

Oh.

I thought he just needed clarification about an unrelated issue, like the_Peoples_Party with the Kanafeh recipe.

I don't understand why every one wants to call Israel "Palestine".  The Romans are the ones that started that mockery and they called Israel just that 'Palestine'.  Trying to force the allegance of the land to another lessor god.

If you want to it could be called Canaanite. I am fine with calling it Israel.  The other thing is that there ALWAYS have been a Jewish remanent in Israel.  Most people that call themselves 'Palestinians' a high percentage of them actually have Jewish heritage.

After living over there (I'm sure Leauki will nod his head and say 'Amen, its true' to this) I've noticed something.  First, most muslims/arabs that live in East Jerusalem do not want to be a part of 'Palestine'.  They may not verbalize that they would rather be a part of Israel. 

Another thing that I've noticed this can be seen as great contrast in East Jerusalem (for those not familiar with East Jerusalem it is almost exclusively Muslim/Arab)and other parts of Jerusalem is trash.  I see trash every where on the ground in East Jerusalem.  I've seen trash shoved inside of trees that have been partially hollowed out. Also, the burning of trash.  Both of these are really concentrated in East Jerusalem.  I've asked some of my Arab friends why do they throw their trash (for Leauki I know  that you are like what is this trash he speaks of.  I mean rubbish hence rubbish=trash I know you knew what I meant I just wanted to poke fun at my friend across the pond) onto the ground.  Their response was basically 'it gives someone a job'.  To clarify, there are very few 'rubbish' bans over there for obvious reasons.

What is my point in talking about rubbish/trash.  You can go to Bethany (Eizariya this being a 'Palestinian' city) ,for example, and I see trash piled up every where.  I never figured out how a garbage collector could tell what was trash and what was not.  While not be overwhelmed by the large quantites of trash ever where.  I also never could tell how you could tell if they did their jobs or not.  Unless they decided to burn a dumpster of rubbish/trash.

Leauki, I agree with everything you said.  Just pointing the trash/rubbish problem.  I think that it is brought onto themselves. 

Another thought, things are cheap in Israel (for the most part) BUT things are CHEAPER in Palestine.

I love the food in all of that region.  Fresh bread was constantly flowing and you could basically pick the chicken you wanted to eat and have some of the freshest possible chicken.  YUMMY!

why did i ask you whether palestinians (or however you want to define that particular subset of arabs who've lived in what is know defined as the state of israel) are also semites?  

or are you asking another question entirely?

not at all.

nor was i trying to get you to discredit your obtuse self by mis-spelling or mis-punctuation.

No, that was it.

I just didn't see the relevance. There are lots of Semitic peoples. I often lament how sad it is that most of them still live under Arab rule. I believe the Jews just had the most western support and that's why Israel became independent rather than part of some Arab dictatorship when the Ottoman Empire fell apart.

The other Semitic peoples (Lebanese/Phoenicians, Aramaeans, Assyrians) haven't been that lucky. (Of course, before the civil war, Lebanon was officially not an Arab state and they still keep up a facade of democracy.)

Not that the non-Semitic peoples under Arab (or Turkish) rule fare much better.

I see you are as petty as ever.  So you have decided to be a spelling nazi now?  Queen bee of grammar maldiction?  You are no funnier now than you were a year ago - and just as much of a light weight.  Leauki does not know you as well, not having to deal with your unfounded allegations as I have.  Still google impaired I see.

if you don't mind, i'll explain once you clarify whether arabs are or aren't themselves a semitic people as well. 

statements such as these:

and:

seem to indicate you believe arabs something other than semitic.

To cut this short, I'll just ask you to tell me how often I would have to repeat the statement I made ("_Arabs_ are Semites just like Israelites (Jews).") before you accept it as an answer that clarifies whether Arabs are or are not a Semitic people.

To me those statements seem to indicate that "the other Semitic peoples" (i.e. those that aren't Israelites or Arabs) live under Arab rule and that non-Semitic peoples have it even worse. The statement doesn't say anything about the Semiticness of the Arab rulers, it only mentions some of the nations they rule.

sorry for takin so long to get back to this.

what i was--and still am--hoping for is exactly what you claim to be providing: clarification.   instead you persist on muddling what should be a fairly cut-and-dry statement. 

beyond that, i fail to see how a people who are themselves semites can also be anti-semites.

i wasn't aware sraelites existed in the modern world.  same goes for phoenicians, philistines, gauls, etc.

What's unclear about this statement?

"Arabs are Semites just like Israelites (Jews)."

I knew you wouldn't accept that as an answer. With you it's always more complicated.

Even assuming that ethnicity or race could have an influence on what people think (a thesis I don't agree with), I don't see what would stop a Semite from hating other Semites (or even himself).

Of course, the discussion as academic, since an anti-Semite is "one who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews". Why on earth would a Semite not be able to feel hostility towards Jews?

These things can happen.

Israelites exist. They include the Jews, Samaritans, and "Ethiopian Jews" (who are really from the Israelite tribe of Dan, or so it is believed).

Phoenicians also still exist. We just call them "Phoenicians" any more (since that was a foreign word for them anyway). The Phoenicians are called "Canaanites" as derived from the Semitic word for them and they are alive and well in Lebanon, genetically and culturally. Phoenician identity is a quite common among Lebanese Catholics.

The Gauls were romanised and ultimately ruled by a German tribe, the Franks. So you and I could agree that their nation vanished (or rather merged with others into a new French nation). But other Celtic nations still exist, like the Irish, the Welsh, the Cornish, and the Scots. (You will also find culturally more pure Celts in Brittany in France if you are interested.)

If you really didn't know that Israelites still existed, I recommend going to a synagogue and participate in a Shabbath service. You will notice that the Israelites in that synagoge celebrate themselves as such, sing songs to the effect that they are Israelites, differentiate between Levites and Israelites (where the word is used to describe Israelites who are not Levites), and pray for the congregation, the people of Israel (the Israelites), and the sons of Adam (i.e. everyone).

If you ever visit Israel around April and see Independence Day festivities, you would also notice that every year (the state of) Israel celebrates the twelve (Israelite) tribes.

So, now you know. We exist.

Be happy and regards from this Israelite.

to paraphrase mae west, academic has nothing whatsoever to do with such a poor definition.  i'm aware of its origin but that's hardly an excuse to continue using a term so lacking logic and precison (the two qualities demanded--by definition, if you will--of anything purporting to be definitive). 

it should be replaced by "anti-jew" or expanded to include hostility/prejudice against all semitic peoples.

otherwise how can one determine exactly which american minority group w.c. fields intended to slur with his observation, "there's an ethiopian in the fuel supply" ?

So you want me to make up a new word which wouldn't be understood by everybody else because otherwise you won't understand what I am talking about?

Everybody knows what an anti-Semite is.

If I said "anti-Jewite" instead, people wouldn't know that that is really the same as an anti-Semite in newer English.

Plus it doesn't really matter anyway, since a person who hates all (or any) Semites is just as bad as a person who hates Jews only. We could call them "racists" as well, if you like.

Is there such a thing as hostility specifically against all Semitic peoples? Do we need a word for it?

I know people who hate Jews but not all foreigners (foreigner = someone from another ethnicity/race/nationality).

And I know people who hate all foreigners, i.e. xenophobes.

But I have yet to meet someone who specifically hates all Semites.

So do we really need a word to name people that don't exist?

(There are people who hate all Muslims, but they usually do not limit themselves to hating Semitic Muslims.)

I figure Fields was just more specific than others.

I guess there are people who hate Ethiopians. But I think they really hate all black people rather than all Semites, Ethiopians being both black and Semitic. (Not that being black has any meaning other than that which people who think it ought to have project onto it.)

Technically, of course, you are right. When hatred for Jews was first called "anti-Semitism", I guess people thought that hatred for Jews is pretty much the same as hatred for all Semites. Now we know this absolutely isn't true:

The problem here, for linguists, is that fanatics rarely care about real taxonomy as much as they care about their own wild fantasies. So while Arabs and Jews are racially of the same stock, the Nazis certainly saw a huge difference between them. And while Gypsies are as Aryan as anyone, the Nazis certainly didn't include them as a nation among the master race.

The Japanese were a leader race, although hardly even related to Aryans. And the most Aryan country of all, Iran, was, after 1942, totally opposed to Nazi Germany. Another oddity was German support for (mostly Semitic) Iraq against (mostly Aryan) Iran.

And while the Nazis claimed that a light skin, non-black hair, and blue eyes were signs of racial superiority they didn't think that Jews (who like some Lebanese and most Imazighen) have lighter skin (and more often blue eyes) than Arabs were the local master race for the Middle-East and North-Africa.

This reminds me of a statement made by my favourite author, Ephraim Kishon about Sabras (native-vorn Jewish Israelis). He said that immigrants from Europe, Ashkenazi Jews, small and weak, were surprised to see that their Israel-born offspring so often turned out to be "strong, blond or red-haired, blue-eyes, exactly like the Nazis described the master race, except a bit taller".

what if the only semites a person hates are arabs?

I don't know any place where Arabs are afraid to reveal themselves as Arabs, so perhaps it is not really a problem.

I have never seen demonstrations where people scream "Death to the Arabs" or other such statements.

If hatred for Arabs ever becomes a real problem, I am sure someone will come up with a word for it.

Until then, I guess, "Islamophobia" covers the irrational hatred for all Muslims, including most Arabs.

I have not seen Muslims trying to hide the fact that they are Muslims due to fear either. Although I assume that Shia Muslims try not to be discovered as such in Saudi-Arabia and Sunni Muslims try not to be discovered as such in Iran.

In Israel no Arab or Muslim ever appears to fear being identified as such.

When I was in Iraq, I also didn't conceal my religion/nationality and simply told everyone but a Kurdish soldier then did tell me not to tell people further south for some reason.

The Kurds pretty much took care of themselves after the war.  Especially when pertaining to security.  Most of the time when you heard the news of an Iraqi taking people hostage most Iraqi could tell you that those people were not from Iraq. So considering that the Kurds were protecting themselves and policing themselves the south had issues of many foreigners coming in.  Most of these foreigners were of the violent type, so I'm guessing that soldier was looking out for your own good probably.

Leauki, most people in the West that feel that Israel are treating the Arabs/PA really bad, I guarantee that most of them have not been to Israel nor the PA to actually see it for themselves.  The one thing that I will note about the PA is the amount of trash/rubbish that is there and I felt safer in Israel.

Of course he was, that was my point.

He assumed that there existed anti-Semitism in southern Iraq. I know the terrorists in Iraq are (were) mostly foreigners. I was making the point that a Kurdish soldier had reason to warn me of anti-Semitism.

Most people in the west will, without any evidence, always think that the Jews are the bad guys. That's what anti-Semitism is.