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Premium Skin Logic

from WinCustomize Forums

Maybe this could help at least me understand the changes that have crept up around Stardock and this Wincustomize branch of Stardock.  I have lurked around here since Windowblinds was a beta before version 1.  This was like .6 or .7 when I found it.

When Windowblinds was created, the skins created for it were free.  Makes us wonder... was Windowblinds originally created with the intention of having the skins for it free or sold seperately.  I don't know if the original Windowblinds programmer is still in the community, but I would love to hear from them about this question.   The Whole community offered the skins for free.  As Stardock grew, it created a host of other products to skin other parts of windows.  There was a charge for this program, that program, etc.  Soon a subscription service was offered for everything.  And recently, this complete subscription service was fragmented into subsubscriptions with only parts available to each. 

Then we have their skin site spun off and being offered as a subscription service to get rid of commonplace internet adds and maybe one or 2 select "premium" skins.  In and of itself, this subscription service is selling additional skins offering profit shares to some (but not all) skin creaters.

Everytime I see a new Master Skinner, I lament the loss to the community as a whole.  Stardock (or is it Wincustomize) has taken this artist away from the general public and put them with a small group of skinners to cater to a minute customer base.  It may sound fine and dandy to split $4.99 with Stardock per download, but the product exposure has just been reduced by a few factors of 10.  Question for you master skinners......  before you were a master skinner, I bet you loved to look at your skin downloads.  Pride in knowing how many people liked your work.  How many of you are getting anywhere near that amount of downloads with your premium skins?  I know it may put a couple of dollars in you and Stardock's wallet, but there are a lot fewer people seeing your work.

Could this be a cause of our shrinking community?

 

65,981 views 64 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The ratio of Master skins to free skins is slim, very slim.  I have been seeing this a lot lately where people are complaining that they "have" to buy premium or Master skins in order to use WindowBlinds.  It couldn't be farther from the truth!

Especially wth WindowBlinds 7, you can use just to skin Aero with textures and such and never touch a skin.  I think you would be missing out, but it is possible.

 

Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Could this be a cause of our shrinking community?
End of quote

I think many people move on. When we were kids, we collected baseball cards to flip or trade. We collected stamps...then, while some continued these pastimes (for love but also for profit) others moved on or away.

Now a days, lots of people seem satisfied with the run of the mill XP or Vista...now Seven comes with many walls and themes...enough so the average Joe doesn't get bored. Also, as screens and hardware improved, the GUI's also improved.

Might happen in the future that there'll be GUIs that you can modify to your heart's content and won't need skill or talent to do so.

Anyway....I think you understand what I mean. If Brad Wardell hadn't have picked up the pieces of the skinning community and if he didn't see the possibilities, where would skinning be today? Would there be any othere sites to call home? I don't know...but it strikes me odd that for someone who saw all these things happen, you'd ask. If Brad makes a good living and provides a roof for us all, seems a bit ungrateful to critisize how he does it.

Also, since when does one have to buy a Master Skin?

If a painter did the walls in your house, wouldn't you expect a bill? Did someone make his brushes and paint for free? Give him a free car and free clothing and food? I think you understand what I'm driving at.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well, that ship has sailed!

Ah...that's easy...The Love boat!
End of quote

...not quite... ;)

Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top

dern double posts ..

 

Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top

what I'm driving at.
End of quote
well I can tell you in a free car, u wont be driving at much.. ;P :rofl:

 

Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top

and that's the truth. ok...1 slice for you...with 'everything'. :grin:

Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'm not a Master, but there must be a different kind of gratification when selling the skins. I have seen skins that were just awful, even downloaded a few, that had no bussiness being uploaded to begin with. The number of downloads for them will often be go into the hundreds or thousands. If people were paying for them, they would be freaking out. Being a Master, you have the satisfaction of knowing your work is good enough that someone 'would' pay for it. When you download a Master skin, you know you are getting quality work. When I played guitar on streetcorners for the fun and love of it, I didn't make money. When clubs started paying me to play and took me off the corners, the crowds were smaller, but there was the satisfaction that I had reached a level of professionalism and quality that I could get paid for it. When I want to do it just for the love of it, I go hit the corners again.
End of quote

 

Very well put Smedley! How can you even think straight with all the meds your on?

Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well it seems to me that there is a great deal of Community support for the Master program and the ability for Masters to sell skins... and quite rightly so.  Not only does it reimburse these Masters for their hard work, dedication and efforts, not to mention their financial outlay to purchase their programs, it gives up and coming skinners something to aspire to, an incentive, so to speak, to be the best they can be at what they do.

And this....

Quoting Lantec, reply 24
IMO having the Master program keeps some of the better graphic artists working (at least part-time) in the Windowblinds arena.

It doesn't serve the community to have them hone their skills here and then move on to just doing web site design and custom skins for those willing to pay.
End of Lantec's quote

I agree wholeheartedy! The Master program, in a way, helps to bind this community because the incentive for our most experienced skinners to hang around, and still contributing community skins, also, is there.  Without our top (Master) skinners we would sadly be lacking, and that is not the way we want things to be, so yeah, the Master program and the ability to sell skins MUST stay.

 

Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top

smedley rocks.......|-)

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Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Vampothika, reply 34
smedley rocks.......
End of Vampothika's quote

Master... er, Mistress Kitty double rocks... with bells on :sun:

Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top

you all rock. :thumbsup:

Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I think it's pointless to debate the Master skin logic, as there are many masters here, and none of them is the same as the other.  Some of them sell their skins, some of them don't.  The facts are simple -- WinCustomize has a hierarchy of skinner levels, at the top of which there are masters who are permitted to sell their skins.  WinCustomize and Stardock runs on a market system -- if you don't want to reward masters who sell their skins, then don't buy them -- it's that simple.  Quite frankly, if you want to beat the system that is in place, then learn to skin yourself, and then you will hold all the power.  That's one the reasons I'm learning -- I don't want to depend on somebody else (and to have to wait for somebody else to get the ideas I have) to create the skins I want, whether they charge for them or not.  In the process, of course, I'm having to depend on a lot of people to help me out, but everything I learn I freely pass on to others who are learning, and I think THAT is the real sense of community that exists here, and that is also why there NEEDS to be a master program -- so that those who have gone on before stay around to help those of us who are on the journey to learning right now.

Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'd like to get everything for nothing and see skinners profit from their labour and talent. Fortunately, this is one of the few areas in life where I can get a lot for nothing; in the rest, I have to pay.

I'm pleased some times to pay for a skin in order to reward the artist. Most of the Masters probably don't make enough money to justify the amount of time spent on their work, so we're a bit lucky to get a vast majority of the things we want for nothing.

Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top

That's one the reasons I'm learning -- I don't want to depend on somebody else (and to have to wait for somebody else to get the ideas I have) to create the skins I want, whether they charge for them or not. In the process, of course, I'm having to depend on a lot of people to help me out, but everything I learn I freely pass on to others who are learning, and I think THAT is the real sense of community that exists here, and that is also why there NEEDS to be a master program -- so that those who have gone on before stay around to help those of us who are on the journey to learning right now.
End of quote

Well said, Karen. :thumbsup:   The Masters impart much, much more than the skins they create, whether they be Master Skins or for free.  They also impart, as you so kindly pointed out, of their knowledge and experience... to help those newer skinners, such as yourself, learn the ropes. 

That in itself makes them worthy and important parts of the community, and we all, whether we're skinners or not, should be grateful for their contribution to the community. 

What's more, apart from skinners recuperating a little for their expenses, teachers do not teach for nothing, so why shouldn't Masters receive some remuneration!  Teachers do, it's their bread and butter, and Masters have to eat, too.

Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top

exactly if someone can make a living off of a hobby .. why not? I mean if I could make a living off of looking stupid,  I'd be happier than Starkers in a cabbage patch. :grin:

 or is that happier than starkers attending a bearded lady contest? /me wonder off to ponder the question at hand..

Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top

you all rock.
End of quote

With a cherry on top ;p

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Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top

exactly if someone can make a living off of a hobby .. why not? I mean if I could make a living off of looking stupid, I'd be happier than Starkers in a cabbage patch.
End of quote

That's gotta be one hell of a lot of happy...like buckets overflowing happy. ;)

or is that happier than starkers attending a bearded lady contest?
End of quote

Not too sure about that one, though.  Hirsute ladies can make me very nervous

One once asked me to trim her bikini line.... that's when the shaky hands started. :-"

Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Imagine the thousands of dollars spent on the software it takes to skin nowdays
End of quote

WTF: seriously? SKS6 = $30US, PSP7 = $70US. So, tell me, this is informative, what specific programs do some of the master skinners use that would add up to thousnads of dollars. Kitty, John, anyone??

Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top

what specific programs do some of the master skinners use that would add up to thousnads of dollars
End of quote

The Photoshop suite of programs will put a serious dent in any wallet... not cheap at all.

Add to that: (some skinners use them all... different effects/application, etc)

CorelDraw

CorelPainter

PSP X2 ($279 AUD.. a tad more than $70 USD)

Video creation/editing apps (dreams/animations, etc)

It all adds up. :)

Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top

what specific programs do some of the master skinners use that would add up to thousnads of dollars.
End of quote

Standalone Photoshop cs4 is $600+.

Now I know that one does not need Photoshop, but still. One can use the Gimp or paint.net, which are free, but those programs are more limited than Photoshop. PSP, though a nice program, still is more limited in areas than Photoshop.

Add on top of that, one who is serious about skinning multiple OS' needs either 3 computers, one running XP, one running Vista, and one running 7; or at least one maching that dual or triple boots between the OS'. Then you're talking about purchasing the new OS, possibly new hard drives or new machines...

Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I dare any one who Claims skinning is cheap and easy to prove it, work ur butt off to become a master by, buying all the necessary tools, OS's,PC or drives, partitions, spend mass hours honing ur craft to perfection, get promoted. Then lets see if you still feel the same about master skins. :thumbsup:

Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top

i got happy thinking new masterskin called logic dam :wc:

Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting HG_Eliminator, reply 46
I dare any one who Claims skinning is cheap and easy to prove it, work ur butt off to become a master by, buying all the necessary tools, OS's,PC or drives, partitions, spend mass hours honing ur craft to perfection, get promoted. Then lets see if you still feel the same about master skins.
End of HG_Eliminator's quote
i must admit the right software can be the 100s of pounds to buy :wc:

Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting skibadee, reply 47
i got happy thinking new materskin called logic dam
End of skibadee's quote

 

maybe someone needs to make on called "dam logic"?   hehehe

Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Standalone Photoshop cs4 is $600+.
End of quote

In Oz $1,415.00... and that's just for the Photoshop CS4 Standard Edition

Photoshop CS4 Extended is @2,200.00 plus :O