Computer AI and hidden map not being hidden from AI debate.

Hi!

Here we go again...

All AIs start with the tech that shows habitale planets. For resources that should not be true, as it was stated in quite some topics from developers.

Those two statements above are all you'll ever get.

BR,  Iztok

As Iztok alluded, there have been threads on this subject before.  I checked out a few when I noobed in.

IIRC, one or two folk set up some tests using corners of a gigantic map, well beyond any possible AI sensor range.  In some cases, the corner had a juicy planet. The player poised a colony ship there and waited, with a screen of sensor-mounting ships or bases or something to see what happened.

With no previous scouting, colony ships soon made their way directly at the juicy planet.

Re-running it with the planet colonized, the AI colony ships never showed.

Re-re-running it, I believe the AI ships diverted as soon as the planet was colonized.

So, the AI seeing the map for planets was pretty much proven.

I do not recall a similar test for resource points.  However, I have seen AI behavior so similar to that described in the above tests, that I have concluded that the AI must "see" the resources just as they do planets.

There is a major delta, though.  I have seen destroyed resources quickly claimed by AIs not the original holder and not the attacker, but I have also seen the same resources left unclaimed for practically forever.  The hypothesis I have made is that when the AI "turns off" the Colony Rush thinking and stops making colony ships and converts those left or whatever, that this same decision point must "turn off" the knowledge of the status of resource points, at least those beyond their sensor reach (and maybe all).

You see, in other 4X space games, there is a "scorched earth" option, where one wipes out a colony planet, sterilizes it, and the planet must then be recolonized all over again.  This means that the AI elements that colonize must remain active all game.  This is not the case in GC2.  Once all the planets are colonized, the AI can and must abort the routines that it uses for the Colony Rush.  So, I think the resource grabbing routines are elements within the larger Colony Rush rouotines.  Thus, once the AI stops using the Colony Rush modules, gone also is the distant resource grabbing elements.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to fit the AI behavior as I have observed it.

I ran a test on resources myself and it sees a bit spotty but I'd start off in a corner with a resource next to me and left it unclaimed for the test. I did my normal routine which was a colony rush followed along with economy starbases along with a couple scouts and survey ships. Made sure to have my area 3 squares of my HW and the resource open and being watched and eventually a constructor comes rolling in right at it.

I will mention though I do tend to agree with that when all planets have been colonized the AI does seem to not be so prompt on the spot for resources... had a game where peacekeepers showed up and mopped up 8+ resource starbases of mine and only 1 minor AI rushed in to claim 2 and others I retook eventually after got my mil str up to build some big beat sticks to beat back those darned peace keepers.... I only just gotten lasers 2 after all.

Ohh right my game version is also TA.... so the tech that shows all inhabitable planets no longer exists as once did... stellar cartography just shows where planets are but not which are inhabitable... maye the AI never patched that update

The game version I play and that i described in my post is DA.

That was back when there was a bug allowing that. The AI was supposed to be (and was fixed to ensure it after that) required to scout any planet before being allowed to send colony ships.

And constructors to resource points?

I have repeatedly found resources mines/bases owned by minor races but at considerable distance from their homeworlds and they never even built scout ships.

In some games, my initial colony ship or two will come across minor race constructors flying along on what i see later were direct paths to a resource point that the minor race could not possibly have "seen" from their world and could not possibly have already gotten a scout out to see it.

Kryo, it often gets so bad that I rush build faster constructors and go minor race constructor hunting.  When I find one - and I always do - I calculate its path then go ahead to claim the resource.  This sometimes does not work because the resource had already, ALREADY been claimed by that same minor race and the constructor I was following enroute not to claim it but to upgrade it.

Minor scouts are represented by such constructors, it's obvious that the activity can only lead to rapid resources gathering while you colony-rush instead along with/against opponents. That's not AI cheating, it's an indirect "reserved" supply of pre-owned starbases that Majors eventually pick off. Even if outside any body's ranges.

I would accept that if those minor race constructors were scouting.  They are, however, not.  The constructors are on direct paths to those resources.

Still, Syanis' original post was not about rationalizing the behavior.  Rather, he was asking if the observed behavior indicated advance knowledge of resource location.  The answer certainly seems to be "yes".

I again tested with another method of starting a new game on imense, 4 races, 8 minors and after 10 turns I started to save and then use the reveal map cheat and look at all other ships and routes, then reload and go another 5-10 turns and do it again. Still seems to be the AI knows just were resources and habitable planets are w/o scouting. Often I find no scouts even at this time besides the initial miner and flagship and since if the races are close eventually seems to be a flagship race for anonamlies were all the flagships are within sight of each other don't see how they could be sneak scouting.

Just ran a test on the automation of my ships.

• Started a game put the all ships into orbit except the space miner.
• Started to build a constructor.

• Automated the space miner.
• After mining the asteroids that were revealed the space miner went directly to asteroids hidden in the fog of war.
• Automated human space miners are not affected by fog of war.

• Launched a constructor.
• There is no automate for building stations so automated explore.
• Explored by moving 2 parsecs (small squares) into the fog.
• It changed direction and repeated the explored by moving 2 parsecs (small squares) into the fog.
• Can't automated a constructor to find resources but it does explore properly.

• Launched the flagship.
• Automated survey.
• The flagship moved directly to an anomaly hidden in the fog of war.
• Automated survey human flagships are not affected by fog of war.

• Reset the test and launched the flagship.
• Automated explore.
• Explored by moving 2 parsecs (small squares) into the fog.
• Automated survey as well as explore.
• The flagship moved directly to an anomaly hidden in the fog of war.

Conclusion:

The Ai is aware of the fog because it can explore when automated. Its a shame the AI ignores the fog for other routines.

I realized a long time ago that galactic resources and extreme planets are there for the AI, not the player! You just have to accept that fact and get over it!

Conclusion:

The Ai is aware of the fog because it can explore when automated. Its a shame the AI ignores the fog for other routines.

 

+1 bump. It seems lame that the optimal use of miners is to use the auto commands to gain the AI bonus.

I wouldn't mind the AI gaining a bonus like this for some of the harder difficuilties - but I have a problem with it when it is hardcoded standard behaviour.

I don't like it much either. Some people prefer to remove this handicap by first saving the game, then building just scouts and sending them all over the place. Once you have scouted a decent amount of the map near you and know where the AI already is, you can just reload the game and play with a similar knowledge like the AI.