ad nauseum...minor observation about early game tanks!

I'm not sure what other tactics you can expect. Yes, there is a heavy reliance on tank gear in this game, but no matter what kind of gear you get the goal is still "take down enemy towers until you can steal their flags and take down their citadel." If people got good DPS gear, it would be "Kill the tower real quick and stroll off laughing" rather than "tank the tower for a minute til it finally dies and stroll off laughing." I don't see how the former would be preferred to the latter. Lastly, what grounds does a Regulus have to complain about other DGs getting tank gear to be able to take down towers, when he doesn't have to worry about getting hit by them at all? (I don't see how you think being able to kite is not in this game, I've seen some pretty effective speed builds with Reg and TB)

the only thing I can add to this is that you can also turn towers on high to make them stronger. And I agree, a really fast reg who is a decent player is about as annoying as anyhting else in htis game.

Ahhh danielsan they cannot tank the tower AND you... so wax on wax off.. shoot them more...

I've seen UB's capable of tanking me and my tower when I play as reg.

0.35 seconds of net_lag makes proper kiting very difficult and more risky than it should be.

If anything other than HP stacking was viable you would see people take dps builds, speed builds, builds that gimp one character while pumping all gold into another (eg fast bracelet), minion builds, disable builds...

At the moment only a few of these are competitive. HP stacking and controlling the map through staying power, then upgrading creeps is the only strategy that seems to be very effective. Fix the dps and other non HP items and maybe we'll see some variety.

 

A problem with your build or strategy, not with UB.

Speed builds are reasonably effective depending on the game, minion build trump hp build. BUT I agree we lack both dps and disable builds.

 

walk up throw mines at his feet and blast away... he'll notice .. trust me..PS sniping him isn't an "effective tactic"

 

 

I'm completely new to the game and only have the demo - the retail is on it's way, woo - so I'm not calling this a fact, but entirely an impression. I do feel that there's no definitive counter to tanky builds, other than going tank yourself and making each skirmish a matter of attrition. This has become my "if I want to win" strategy, where other builds are purely for experimentation. I feel it's much more viable to outtank a damage dealer, than to outdamage a tank. Maybe it's related to the demo's demigod roster.

there are many counters to tanking builds. but you wnat be able to use them at level 3-5. so what, just be a bit patient. the problem is that people are facing a situation they do not adapt to and that is very limited to some levels. they do not plan the future.

 

so what if you face some tanks that begin to kill 1 or 2 or 3 towers at the beginning? some level later you can make them pay for that. btw you can rape their towers on the other side as ranged dg meanwhile.

the dps items are not as effective as hp items, especially when you take armor into account.

e.g.
+25dmg on gauntlets of brutality vs +500hp and +5hp regen
20 hits needed to negate hp, not even counting hp regen or armor

blood of the fallen 800hp +5regen vs mards hammer 40dmg +5%atk speed
taking armor into account, you have to hit him over 20 times to negate his health

It would appear that all the dps items need a buff to be more in line with hp + armor items.
They should make it so that blood of the fallen is equal to mards hammer, so if an UB with blood of the fallen goes vs an UB with mards hammer, they both die at the same time.

is'nt 5% attack speed > 5 HP regen?

You took that line out of the rest of my post. To win the game, you still want to "pummel down the towers," as the OP put it, regardless of what build you might have. The only difference might be you wait for creep to do it for you. I don't disagree that HP items are disproportionately favored in this game, and that the other items should probably be reassessed to make them more viable. However, the OP's argument fails to illustrate why this is so.

 

I sometimes try for outright damage builds, but I find that it only gets worse during the latter part of the game. At one instance I had two artifacts for damage and attack speed, and I could just barely get people down to half health in a straight fight before I had to flee myself.

I'm entirely aware that I still suck at the game and that there are more factors involved, but it's not apparent to me how to beat a defensive build.

Ice TB makes a pretty fun autoattack character.
Take Mards Hammer, Gauntlets of Brutality, Slayer Wraps and Mageslayer for starters. Ashkandor later on.
Don't forget to keep changing forms for the bonus dmg.
Build is max rain of ice, max permafrost, 1 point in deep freeze, 1 point in ice nova, max stats.

Not recommended for a serious game

We all know that HP > all

Does anyone know what would be better out of armor vs dps?
Say Scalemail vs Gauntlets of Brutality, both 400g. Which comes out on top for performance.

hp > all is not valid for all dgs in all situations! this thesis was allwys only from the perspective of an ub (or ub like). but you do much more with your dgs than standin infight.

Generally speaking, a mix of 'even' armor and health is best for autoattack damage. i.e., if armor is just as effective as health in a gold-to-gold ratio, a 50/50 split suffices. However, if armor is generally 30% as effective, a 70/30 split is best. This is generally complicated by item prices which differentiate wildly as you go up the item tree. Thus, most people rely on preference.

P.S., shake: The brackets in your name make you impossible to autoquote

you are the first person to quote me properly ^^

HP builds might be the best builds (in general) for 1v1 situations, but as soon as you starting thinking about other scenarios, other ideas become more and more plausible.  For example, mixing in a little speed will generally make you weaker 1v1, but is probably better in many 1v2 and 2v1 scenarios.

Now in small games (ie 1v1 and 2v2) you are very restricted in your choices.  Its tough to force advantageous situations for non HP/minion builds in even a 2v2.  Thats why I dont play 2v2...your choices are so limited.  But in 3v3 and higher HP builds dont necessarily trump everything else.

DPS builds are pretty weak in most situations though, so I would like to see them boosted someday.

You suck at theoretical math don't you...

If my base damage is 225 (torchie or regulus at level one can easily get this) and I add 25 base to that I am at 250 damage.. and the 500 hp is wiped out in 2 hits...

3 counting level one armor mitigation...

 

 

Regulus and Torch bearer will tell you the gauntlets win...

Ranged demigods who can harass easily can greatly benefit from gauntlets. However, melee demigods can have a little more trouble as it becomes much harder to actually attack another player. Also, the flaw behind saying that 2 250 damage attacks take away armor's bonus is that, pitting your regulus against the same regulus (with armor) puts him ahead of you for roughly 20 hits. And I really doubt regulus needs to take 20 hits before he goes to the fountain. Even if he did, you two still have active skills which can add to non-auto attack damage (though I suppose you both take angel form to hit 200 damage per shot), which mitigates the effectiveness of autoattack+ and armor, while increasing the effectiveness of HP+ items.

That's not what he was trying to say.

Without the 25 upgrade, you would still wipe out 90% of 500 in two hits.

In order for the upgrade itself (not counting base damage) to outweigh the 500 hp increase, you need to hit him 20 times.