kfc posts:

aldericjourdain posts:

It's awesome to me as well, AldericJourdain. Thanks for saying so.

While we can and should judge Kennedy's behavior, we cannot judge his heart or soul. THat's God's job.

I didn't follow Kennedy's the stories that were reported becasue we were in the middle of moving at the time.

We don't know the state of Kennedy's heart and soul at the point of his death, but yes, I can assure you that if you are turly sorry for your sins (and only God knows) then even at the last moment of life, if you ask for forgiveness and absolution, it wll be done.

There is however, a big difference between rationalizing one's sins and being truly sorry for them and asking for forgiveness and absolution. We just don't know the state of Kennedy's heart and soul at the time of his death. He's dead, may he rest in peace. Enough said on that.

 

Because the point I was making had nothing to do with baptism nor does this for that matter.  It's funny how you zoom in and everything to you is baptism.  That's not what this passage is about.  Water is symbolic for the Holy Spirit because it has the power to cleanse and wash away..unlike physical natural water.   It's also symbolic for the Word.  Jesus is the word remember? 

"How shall a young man cleanse his way?  By keeping it according to your WORD."  Ps 119:

"So that He might sanctify her, havng cleansed her by the washing of water with the word that he might present to Himself the church in all her glory having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she would be holy and blameless."   Eph 5:26-27

This salvation in  Ezek v25 as a cleansing that will wash away sin is NOT PHYSICAL WATER.  Such washing was symbolized in the Mosaic rites of purification (Num 19:17-19, Ps 119:9, Is 4:4, Zech 13:1).  TThe gift of the new heart signifies the new birth which is regeneration by the Holy Spirit. 

Going by your quote....what part of this don't you get??  Notice who's doing the cleansing?  Notice who's doing the pouring?  I underlined for your sake.  Nothing to do with the physical.  When else have the Jews been gathered together OUT OF ALL THE NATIONS before?  How can you read this and say it's been fulfilled?  Only the part about the gathering is in the process of happening now.  The rest is imminent. 

not quite.  It's being fulfilled in the Jews as the masses are flocking to Israel as we speak.  Open your eyes Lula. 

It's not JUST me.  Any reputable bible scholar will tell you this old and new.  Like I said for centuries bible scholars have been waiting for this.  Had you read them and then saw this happen maybe your mouth would drop and you would understand the astounding miracle that it is. 

yes Exactly.  But he's going to do it AFTER the regathering of them all together.  Continue and read the whole of Ezekiel 37 to get the whole context. 

Yes, but not by the physical water but by the LIVING WATER.  You're stuck looking at the physical and NOT the spiritual.  I don't know what more I can say except for the fact that even Paul says "thank God I didn't baptize any of you." Why would he say that if water baptism was so important to your salvation?  Pretty odd thing to say isn't it?  Why is it we have no record of ANY of the Apostles being dunked?  How about Mary?  If it's so detrimental to one's salvation. 

You remind me of the woman at the well BEFORE she got it.  BEFORE it sunk in.   She kept thinking Christ was talking about physical water when he was speaking about the spiritual.  You're like the paralytic who kept looking past Jesus at the pool of water and saying "if I could just get someone to help me into that water I'd be healed."  Both were talking to the LIVING WATER not understanding it's all about the physical...NOT the NATURAL.  Even Nicodemus, one who was learned didn't get it in John 3.  His Phariseeic mind kept him in the physical realm. 

Christ said" If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.  He who believes in Me as the scripture said, From his inntermost being will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believe in Him were to receive; "  John 7:37-39a

This is that same water that Ezek 25 is talking about.  It's not physical.  It's spiritual. 

no, only those who believe in the replacement theory.  That is wishful  prideful and anti-semetic thinking. 

 

"Oh sure, there ain't nothing confusing about the Bible. It's all clear and concise, not to mention factual and spot on."

There isn't and it is, as long as one relies on the holy spirit to explain it.  Most however depend on the mind, which is ignorant of things of the spirit.

Just a clarification because JU wouldn't let me edit.  But I meant to say "Both were talking to the LIVING WATER not understanding it's all about the spiritual, not the natural." 

 

I actually agree Whisper to a point.  The Holy Spirit's leading is a must.  Yes.  But even so the word doesn't contradict itself so using one scripture to help understand another helps as well.  Because otherwise we could be saying the Holy Spirit is telling me something when in fact it's not. 

One way to make sure and "test the spirits" is to make sure we're hearing correctly is to Proof it. 

 

leauki posts:

One of the things this certainly shows is that you think in the carnal instead of the spiritual.

It all boils down to accepting or rejecting Christ, Who is Truth itself.  

First, Christ is in Heaven reigning over His Messianic kingdom, the New Isreal, the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Chruch. The Chruch is according to Scripture, "the pillar and bulwark of truth." After the end of the world, Christ will come again,... In glorious majesty, He will descend to earth where He will judge the living and the dead.  

The "Holy land" that was promised to Abraham and his descendants is not a physical land here on earth, but rather is Heaven, an eternal holy land.

Secondly, it's not the Church who declared the Jews no longer the chosen children of God...Almighty God decided that when the Temple Veil was rent from top to bottom the very moment of Christ's death on the Cross in 33AD.

 

 

    

It is a physical land. It was always a physical land.

No land in heaven or heaven itself is described in geographical terms. But the holy land was.

 

And who interpreted that to mean that the Jews are no longer chosen?

Who invented the god who goes back on his word?

 

This is all about Isreal, but not the physical land of the state of Isreal  but rather the spiritual New Isreal. Christ, at the end of time and the Final Judgment will gather all His children of the New Isreal and take them into the eternal and spiritual "holy land" of Heaven.

This prophecy is about the salvation of Jews who accept Christ as the Messias and convert to Christianity and receive peace. Those Jews back then at the beginning of Christianity as well as the remnant through today who are baptized (spiritual rebirth) into the New Isreal, Christ's everlasting spiritual Messianic kingdom, which He established as the mystical Body of Christ. 

Old Testament Judaism has full blossomed into Catholicism and Ancient Isreal has full blossomed into New Isreal. It's not replacement per se, it's the caterpillar growing into the butterfly or the acorn into the oak tree.  

Verse 24, "For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries and will bring you into your own land."

It's you who is thinking in the physical, thinking this land in Ezek. 36 is the physical land of the state of Isreal. It isn't. You need to keep in mind that from the get-go, this is a battle not of the flesh, but of principalities, powers etc. 

Throughout the entire Bible there have always been nations at war...we learn in the last days, this is going to increase...and it has and will escalate in the time of AC....this is where the state of Isreal figures in ....it's always been a nation at war and always will be.

PEACE.....It's been mentioned that the Messias would bring peace. The peace that was promised is here..But it's not world peace, rather it's spiritual peace within our hearts that came at Christ's first Advent. According to Ezekiel 37:36, this coming of the Messianic King results in "peace to the nations". "I will make a covenant of peace with them"  This is the peace of the New Covenant that Ezekiel is talking about.

It turns out this peace is built upon the virtue of charity, we call love. This peace is built on Christ's summation of all the commandments which is to love God and our neighbor for His sake.  This love was a result of the Redemption on Good Friday. Ezekiel 27 speaks of putting His Spirit in the midst of the Jews (that means in their hearts) and with the Holy Spirit there they will be able to keep His commands and judgments.

God's means of the salvation of the Jews is through the sacrament of Baptism...God is involved with Jew's individual hearts and souls, not the nation-state of Isreal.

We know from Scripture that a remnant of Jews will accept Christ's love.    

 

"That day God made a covenant with Abram, saying: To thy seed will I give this land, from the river of Egypt even to the great river Euphrates."

1. Heaven lies between Egypt and Iraq.

2. G-d went back on His word.

3. Hence, the promised land is heaven and has nothing to do with Abram's descendants.

Is that it?

 

That's right Ezekiel 36: 24-28 has nothing to do with the physical and that includes the physical land of the modern state of Isreal.

Again Almighty God is concerned with individual hearts and not with physical nations, like Isreal is. We know it can't be the physical state of Isreal becasue it and all the world is going to be blown up at the end of the world. Think Spiritual, hearts and souls, not physical nations.

God's prophet Ezekiel describes God gathering the Jews from all countries and bringing them to the eternal holy land (of Heaven).   

This will occur by bringing those Jews into the New and Eternal Covenant through the spritual regeneration of water and the Holy Spirit at Baptism. At Baptism the filthiness of Original Sin and actual sin is washed away and they become children of God and members of the messianic Chruch, New Isreal.

The Messianic Church of the New and Eternal Covenant replaced the Temple of the OT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There we go.  That's what I've been waiting for.  You haven't disappointed me Lula.   Of course this isn't about Israel.  Because this is all about the RCC.  *should have known better as she hits herself in the head*  Thank you so much for showing me the light Lula. 

Actually...This is that anti-semite belief system called replacement theology.   You're making a huge mistake. 

no, no, no....the Bible is clear "All Israel will be saved."  It has NOTHING to do with Baptism.  In the end ALL nations will go up to Jerusalem and worship the Lord.  That will be his seat.  He will be ruling from Jerusalem with the scepter that goes all the way back to Judah in Genesis 49 and later to David.  The covenant with David is that he would have an everlasting Kingdom thru his descendant.   Look at the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 Apostles...all Jews....btw... and they will most likely be the ruling elders (24 elders) in the Kingdom as written. 

yep.

1. exactly.  Chosen is chosen.  Everlasting is Everlasting.  A Promise is a Promise. 

2.  Not me. 

nope.  Not even close.  There is never a new Israel or replaced Israel.   This is your religion telling you this.  Not the bible. 

When I came to Christ I was given a new heart.  It didn't change who I was exactly meaning I'm still me; but it sure changed who I belonged to.   The Jews will still be the Jews.  No new Israel.  No replaced Israel.   If Leauki comes to Christ and recognizes He is the Messiah, Leauki doesn't lose his Jewishness.  He's still a Jew.  We are Gentile converts and Leauki would be a completed Jew or a Messianic Jew but he's still a Jew. 

You're not getting it Lula.  God is NOT done with the Jews nor is he done with Israel..as much as you'd like to believe.  Wait till the Temple gets built.  I believe it will be very soon.  Then let's talk again. 

 

 

Paul calls himself a Pharisee.  Paul was a Jewish theologian who anchored himself in the Tanack.  He is a Hebrew of the Hebrews.  Paul considered himself a Pharisee (I'm not talking about how people now a days toss around Pharisee.  Back during the 1st century there were several sects of Pharisees.  To be a Pharisee you had to have all of the Torah and most of the Tanack memorized) through out his whole life.  He proclaimed himself to be a Pharisee in the line of Pharisees.  He was dedicated to his faith and lived an observant life.  Paul wrote 'The blessing that gentiles are receiving now what GREATER BLESSING will it be when Jews come into the knowledge of Jesus Christ.'  Paul also wanted to if he could exchange the knowledge of Jesus Christ in order that his brothers (meaning Jews) could come into the knowledge.

Also I discussed the heresy of replacement theology here:

Lula psts:

LEAUKI POSTS:

Leauki,

Thanks for providing this quotation of Genesis 15:18-20. Almighty God's promises of giving physical land to Abraham's descendants has already been completely fulfilled. They received the land and lost it.

Here it is Biblically...

From the Douay Rheims, Joshua 21: 41-43 "And the LORD GOD gave to Isreal all the land that he had sworn to give to their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt in it. And He gave them peace from all nations round about; and none of their enemies durst stand against them, but were brought under their dominion. 43 Not so much as one word, which He had promised to perform unto them, was made void, but all came to pass."

3Kings 8:56, "Blessed by the LORD , who hath given rest to His people Israel, according to all that He had promised: there hath not failed so much as one word of all the good things that He promised through His servant Moses."

2Esdras, alias Nehemias 9:7-8, "Thou, O LORD GOD, art He who choseth Abram, and broughtest him forth out of the fire of the Chaldeans, and gavest him the name of Abraham. 8 And thou didst find his heart faithful before thee: and thou madest a covenant with him, to give him the land of Canaanite, of the Hethite, and of the Amorrhite, and of the Pherezite, and of the Jesubite, and of the Gerzetite, to give it to his seed: and thou hast fulfilled thy words because thou art just."

After reading these passages any one can plainly see that Genesis 15:18-21 was fulfilled.

Deut. 9:5-6 also reveals that it was fulfilled becasue of the oath God made to Abraham.

"For it is not for thy justices, and the uprightness of thy heart that thou shalt go in to possess their lands: but because they have done wickedly, they are destroyed at thy coming in: and that the LORD might accomplish his word, which he promised by oath to thy fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6 Know therefore that the LORD thy GOd giveth thee not this excellent land in possession for thy justices, for thou art a very stiff necked people."

As a result of their continued disobedience and "wickedness, God took the land away little by little, until it was completely decimated in 70AD by the Romans soon after the New and Everlasting Covenant was inaugurated at Christ's death on the Cross.

From that time on, we learn from Hebrews that it is Christ who became the source of salvation for all who obey Him. Of the New and Everlasting COvenant Jesus proclaimed, "What should I say? Father save Me from this hour? But it was for this purpose that I came to this hour."

Yes, "the hour" had come after the long eras of the covenants of Old. Jesus Himself said it through the prophet Jeremias, "The days are coming when I will make a new covenant" ....one that would be written on not on stone tablets, "I will place my law within them and write it upon their hearts."

This New Covenant would be eternal and would be established in the Person and at "the hour" of Jesus Christ. It was in fact, sealed in His Blood. From the first announcement by God of the coming Redeemer to the fallen Adam and Eve, to the covenant God made with Noe and his family, to the promises God swore to Abraham and his seed, ....the long history of salvation culminated in the hour of the Christ.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

So does your knowledge of scripture come from the holy spirit or from a school?

Native Americans would tell you that all the land is holy.

kfc posts:

Ah, it appears you don't know the Holy Bible as well as you claim. The Holy Bible is clear that the conversion of Jews to Christ and Christianity is not something that the New Covenant has put off in the future when all the Jews gather in the present political state of Isreal just prior to the Second Coming of Christ.

Think Remnant....KFC.

St.Luke 1:67-79 is clear that Christ came precisely to save the Jews and for the express purpose of fulfilling the promises of Abraham and David. The first Christians were Jews, around 10,000 of them were saved according to the Book of Acts 2:41; 4:4. After the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the first Pentecost, they went out and St.Peter spoke to the multitudes that had gathered from all over the known world at that time. He preached the Good news of Christ, and they were converted and baptized.  

For those Jews who accept Christ's invitation to follow Him, He has saved them in this same way for the last 2,000 some years and will continue to until the end of the world.

You must have missed this in Romans 11. St.Paul teaches that even in the Jews' glory days, only a remnant under the Old Covenant followed God and didn't bow the knee to Baal. Read 11: 2-4.  Consequently, in v. 5,  he says, "at this time also there is a remnant chosen according to grace". And so we understand that a similiar of same portions of Jews are now being saved.

The Chruch Fathers who wrote about the anticipated conversion of Jews believed the salvation of the remnant is going to occur during the Church age which is now...the millenium...and yes, some at the very end.

 As to "all Isreal", in Rom. 11:26-27,  St. Augustine, Origen and others taught that "all Isreal" refers to both Jews and Gentiles saved throughout the New Testament period.

 

 

 

We lost it twice.

And got it back twice.

Be more precise!

So you keep talking about how these things are in the "New Testament" and then refer to a non-Biblical authority for the new definition of "all Israel"? Isn't that exactly what KFC accused you of?

 

"You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

Yes it is futile, but mankind being what mankind is he will hold out until the last bastion falls. 

However why don't you tell me the reasoning behind this sarcastic remark of yours Infidel?   I am quite curious as to why so many people act this way.  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the reason.  As a jew, and I am assuming that you are one from your posts, I would think that you would desire to be one with God...........am I wrong? 

"So does your knowledge of scripture come from the holy spirit or from a school?"

No one gets knowledge from a book, nor from another person for that matter.  It's rather like when the teacher tells the student 2+2= 4.  Until the student adds the two together and finds out for themselves that indeed 2+2=4, it is only a theory, only something that someone has told them.  It is only when the task is actually accomplished it becomes knowledge.

So my answer to you is that my knowledge comes not from achool, not even from scripture, but from experience earned through my own efforts to find out.  It is the holy spirit that explains that those experiences, and it is scripture that backs up what the holy spirit tells me.  But please don't believe me,nor take my word for it, find out for yourself whether or not I tell the truth of the matter.  Until one does prove or disprove it's validity for themselves, like the student who hasn"t done the math, it will be just a theory. 

KFC stated in her opening statement of this forum.  "You can know" that you are going to heaven after you die.  So tell me KFC, how do you know that you can know?  Is it an assumption that you have either died, or you've been there, if so, which is it?  Or is it just that you believe it, another theory more or less?   Which brings me back to the other forum you've started, "Have you ears to hear".

 

Yes, I do have ears to hear.  I thought I made it quite clear why you can know.  You may want to re read this article that got this whole blog started in the first place.  Go back to the beginning and read it again. 

that's what she has to do to keep her belief going in this direction because it's NOT coming from the plain reading of the scriptures.  She has to go outside (tradition) to get her answers when in fact, it's all right in scripture.  That's our big disagreement and the crux of the whole matter.  Augustine was one that probably never saw this happening but she should know she has the benefit of living in this day when we were able to see Israel come into their own nation. That's Huge.

Augustine probably never dreamt this day would ever be a reality so he had to come up with his opinion on what these scriptures meant.  I say that because many scholars thruout history said similar things trying to explain what they thought this could mean.  Some said "it seems as tho Israel has to come into their own land" while others may have tried to spiritualized it away like Augustine did. 

Augustine was not a final authority.   We've been given more light because of time passed.  With every generation God gives us more understanding.   If Augustine lived today, no doubt his mind would have changed as he read the scriptures in light of the events passing. 

Paul made it clear there is a distinction between the Jew, the Gentile and the church.  You can see this in 1 Cor 10 but I don't have time to quote right now because I'm on the way out for my Tuesday Bible Study. 

Maybe later. 

"Yes, I do have ears to hear.  I thought I made it quite clear why you can know.  You may want to re read this article that got this whole blog started in the first place.  Go back to the beginning and read it again. "

I don't need to read it again, nor do I have a question about why I can know.  I know how I can know.  What I wanted from you was the answer to how do you (specifically) know?

It's a simple question, requires no great thought.  If your original post is any indication, I'd say you know because you read it in the bible, and perhaps because someone told you so and you believe it.  However, I could be wrong, which is why I asked in order to give you the opportunity to tell me so if I am.

Leauki,  I have a question for you pertaining to the jewish faith, and you are the most obvious person here to ask. 

After God, through Moses, led the people of Israel out of bondage in Egypt, why did God lead them for 40 years through the wilderness before bringing them into Caanan?  It is quite obvious to anyone that can read a map, that Caanan is not 40 years away from Egypt, not even for people who are walking, as it appears, were the hebrews.  It appears to have been a deliberate act, not one where one is simply lost, since God isn't lost anywhere.  I am hoping that you can tell me the reason from the jewish perspective of the event, since obvously the jewish people were the ones that this all happend to.  I know that this is not exactly the place for this, but I know of no other place in which to ask.  Do you mind answering? 

Any time.




There are several explanations, each one of them works.

The Torah itself says that G-d was disappointed with the current generation of Israel and hence decided to make sure that everyone would die before the nation would reach the promised land. But their children would enjoy the land of promise and nobody was meant to die early. That's why it had to take 40 years.


Another solution is simpler:



It is obvious to anyone who can read a map. But who can read a map these days?

How do you move more than a million people through a desert?

The answer is, you can't. Unless you have divine support or modern equipment, marching through a desert is suicide for a large group. What instead happened was gradual settlement through the Sinai, moving south from the Nile delta (the Israelites lived in the far north of Egypt and never crossed the Red Sea and neither does the text say that they did) to Mount Sinai and then towards today's Eilat.

Even with divine support marching through the desert quickly is a futile act, especially since the Israelites were supposed to pick up their laws on the road.




In cases like these I really prefer the practical perspective: Why would one or two million people (or even tens of thousands) need 40 years to walk through a desert? Once you assume that there is a reason, the reason becomes obvious. That's simply how long it takes.

Thanks for your perspective and your answers.  They are all deserving of consideration, and I will consider them all.

You stated that the only way to move a million people through the desert, was one of two ways, one of which was 'divine support".  Isn't that what the hebrews had? 

It is interesting that you brought up gradual settlement.  The OT doesn't mention this,  And yet it seems like something that would, of course, naturally happen.  If it did, I'm curious as to why.  The OT says that God went before them in a pillar of smoke during the day, and a pillar of light during the night.  Why would they abandon God to settle elsewhere?  God provided for all their needs according to the OT.  Do you have an opinon on this?