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Remove gold for killing DGs

Remove gold for killing DGs

and other balance stuff

It merely adds to the so-called slippery slope mechanism present in every strategy game ever created.  Once you are behind, you are likely to fall further behind as enemy comes back even stronger.

It's already quite enough of a penalty to be off the map for 30 seconds.  If it was a big team fight, the whole team might even get killed which will lead to multiple towers falling rapidly to a coordinated and unopposed push, possibly with a critical flag cap (+30% reinforcement dmg/health) and lock.  The game could well be over after a single kill towards the end because of this..it seems silly to additionally award the killer and all assisting teammates with gold.  Exaggeration or not, this would also help to lessen the effect of questionable AI and human players that lead to one team gaining a 50 billion gold advantage in 10 minutes with mageslayerahskandorallfathersringmassroflcopterwithhellfiresandrocketpods.  Oh and in order to keep the economy balanced, the passive gold rate could just be increased.

The second thing is that minions are insanely powerful.  Early game minions are cheap, low mana, and provide a relatively huge dps boost such that an assassin can't do very much to hold a lane vs an army.  Since the general must use mana only to summon at this point, money is saved for better items (not the v-something helm) like say, slayers gloves, so when the assassin comes back with AoE and a mana helmet to spam mines or whatever and hex scroll he finds that he is outclassed in a simple 1v1 fight because you just skilled slows and nukes and bought damage/health.  Should he not get AoE, the general still has his mini-army, along with simple creep support that now is not subject to AoE.  No way can an assassin take the dps of several soldiers, archers, siege archers, and priests that will all be present (but no creeps on his side as the opposing general already wiped them out), I think that is what leads people to underestimate minions.  It's not that you are supposed to get level IVs with every gold piece you have for the first 15 minutes just to get frost nova'd and get singled out with your 2000 health, it's that you will remain ahead with the damage threat that keeps the enemy back until they can counter by which time you already have the counter-counter while STILL having the original threat otherwise.  QoT out of the gate with shield, 2 archers and 2 shamblers is unattackable and does great AoE vs creeps.  Focusing then on spikes and NOT shamblers will throw the opposition off because they still have to deal with minions/creeps with AoE of their own, except that means they have become less effective direct assassins, and are about to lose 1000 armor and get focus fired by everything in the vicinity.

The net of all of this is I feel it's too easy to gain the upper hand as a general without actually commiting yourself to any kind of counterable strategy.  Generals can be half-assassins and half-generals with the threat of full generals, but assassins that are half assassins are just bad.  Probably the best example is UB vs anyone.  Let's say I buy priests and skill into whichever DG-specific minion.  I've already won any sort of direct confrontation as you will be half dead by the time you reach melee.  With spit, you've just given my priests something to do.  You have zero chance of holding a flag until your ooze is high enough to kill minions and creeps faster than minions and creeps will kill you (which is actually never).  You are therefore relegated to the role of tank in a team battle.  Supported by oak shield, you will be unstoppable late game with your permaslow and high dps.  However, team battles provide many opportunites to use things like slow/stun/heal anyway, so really what good does UB do past what any other hero could do?  It's sort of like having a weak rogue in a WoW raid.  You bring dps, but so does everyone else and then some.  You also die too easily.

Thus, point 3 is UB seems weak.

There are additional points but this is long enough.

4,973 views 33 replies
Reply #26 Top

But you guys forgetting what's all about here. 500 + 50 * lvl or 500 + 100* lvl don't change much (almost nothing) on low lvls !! And we are talking about low lvl advantage. 600+ gold at start its A LOT. Read my previous posts, what you can do with additional 600 gold just after game starts. It's just too much for first minutes of game. That 2-3 first kills with 500+ system now are crucial for whole game, and it really shouldn't work like that.

Reply #27 Top

The death penalty ugrade in the Citidel, is it ever used, ever?  If it also lowered the gold and/or xp the enemy got from killing your DG, I bet it would be a very desirable upgrade finally. Say, -5% the first level, -10% each level after that.

Reply #28 Top

Oh and I forgot to add to the OP, minions being insanely overpowered and UB being underpowered is pretty funny.

If anything priests are a little too powerful, and the exclusively being able to buy minions for generals doesn't seem warranted.  Then again favor items being seperated doesn't seem necessary either.  And UB is in no way underpowered, he's probably the easiest demi of all to actually do well with even if you aren't a good player.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting PurplePaladin, reply 2
The death penalty ugrade in the Citidel, is it ever used, ever?  If it also lowered the gold and/or xp the enemy got from killing your DG, I bet it would be a very desirable upgrade finally. Say, -5% the first level, -10% each level after that.
End of PurplePaladin's quote

Hey this is actually a pretty cool suggestion.

Reply #30 Top

I second that, its a better idea then the flag switch and makes the upgrade woth it.
Also making it harder for the enemy to lvl out of control... unless they go for it as well sort off.

Reply #31 Top

Yup, % idea is cool, but don't solve disadvantage problem.

Let's say lvl 3 demigod died, killed by snipe (assisted by another demigod):

  • Right now (500 + 100 * lvl): For kill you will get 800 gold, assist 400, sum 1200. 1200 gold from just 1 kill lvl 3 char !! It's more than double u started with !!
  • 500 + 50 * lvl idea: For kill 650 gold, assist 325, sum 975. It's really not that big difference. It's still almost 1000 gold for single kill, which is HUGE advantage at start.
  • -5% gold idea: For kill 760 gold, assist 380, sum 1140. It's too much at the start just for 1 kill.
  • 100 * lvl idea: For kill 300 gold, assist 150, sum 450. 450 is still advantage (gold for free), but it's not that much. You can't say you lost, because of death at the start.

 

I think higher lvl kills still should be rewarded more, than you propose (500 + 50 * lvl). If you kill lvl 20 person with 500 + 50 * lvl idea, you will get only 1500 gold. That's not much, considering price of better items. So this idea don't change much in early game, but chances a lot in late game (and that's not what we are trying to do here). With 100 * lvl idea, it's 2000 gold for kill demigod on 20 lvl. Beside, gold per second should be increased by 2 as well. So ALL people can earlier buy better gear, and the game will be more equal. Just imo, early kills shouldn't decide about whole later game. And now it works like that in most cases. Just 3 kills (average lvl 5 kills) from one char right now let him buy almost 2 additional armors (1500 + 1750), not mentioning assist gold for other players. It's just too big disadvantage for team which died at the start now.

Reply #32 Top

If you remove the gold gains, there would be no point in killing enemy demigods. Even if you half the gold gained, there would be no point, you might aswell zerg flags and towers.

As it is, 1 DG kill can net you 1 item or citadel upgrade roughly. It's better like this.

 

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Aviyur, reply 7
If you remove the gold gains, there would be no point in killing enemy demigods. Even if you half the gold gained, there would be no point (...)
End of Aviyur's quote

It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

 

Killing enemy Demigod:

  •  FUN
  •  gold (less or more, it's still FREE gold)
  •  exp
  •  spot (you get rid of opponent for next ~45 sec, so you can exp and make cash there without being disturbed)
  •  psychical advantage (next time this person would think twice before attack you 1 by 1)
  •  disadvantage for opponent (can't exp, don't get gold every second / gold for killing creeps, can't take flags, can't help teammates)
  •  FUN, FUN, FUN !!

 

Which part is not worth killing enemy demigod ?