Demigod DRM question (seems more restrictive than before)

The new Goo thing is validating games per person, instead of per computer, so it can't be it, unless it asks you for an email address.

Ya, I found it an easy and much less intrusive than any copy protection yet.  I put it on my main computer, and Lan computer without a hitch.  As long as they know it's "the owner" installing it, that's all it wants.  After that, you only have to "check in" for patches/updates.  Beleive me, it's FAR better than the "Alway on, always connected or it won't even start" DRM stuff like Dawn of War 2 and Spore ect. . .

So, to get this straight:  Demigod single player requires you to activate online before you can play it at all, correct?

ONCE, then it's activated, and you can play all you want without any type of "connection" after that.  If you want patches/updates, you need only connect to get those too, then your back to "never need to be connected while you play" again.

It did ask for my e-mail and serial but honestly it's more a play on words that anything, it might be "per person" but in the end it doesn't change the fact that the installation is still linked to the computer on which you activate the game on, upgrade of change of computer and you have to reactivate the game, exactly like you have with Securom, TAGES or Steam, the only difference is that you have unlimited activations. Actually it's very close to the unlimited activation Securom implementation that is used with Bioshock or GTA IV.

You don't have to be always connected to play Spore or Dawn of War II, and actually with Spore you don't even need to be connected to update the game, like I said some lines ago when it come to intrusiveness it's not really any less (or any more) intrusive than the unlimited activation flavor of Securom. 

Given that the game is "mostly" a multi-player game, you still need to be connected while you play it

This is not new. Stardock games have had this behavior for years. Sins of a solar empire worked like this, as did galactic civilizations 2.

Re-Read my original post, no they doesn't. 

It also doesn't mess with your windows. the DRM is self contained.

Anyways all stardock games were always like that. only V1 from the CDrom was completely drm free, sometimes they released a major patch as DRM free. the rest required one time activation, but it does not modify your windows, its self contained in the game.

Perhaps due to some implementation bug Sins of a solar empire did not ask for reactivation when you moved it, but it was supposed to. The activation system is identical to the one Demigod uses:

http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sinsactivation.png

All three of the games put a sig.bin file under 'all users'. All three of them have identical looking activation screens. So, nothing really changed.

Well... no, even thought I own the CD version I never even installed neither GalCiv2 or Sins from the CD, I upgrade them and they remained DRM-free. I re-tried yesterday with the latest version of Sins and GalCiv2, copied them on a USB key, plug the key on a third net-less computer and both worked flawlessly. Heck that's the first thing I actually tried when I bought Sins and that's the reason why I bought later GalCiv2

So again no, with Sins and GalCiv2 even upgraded version are still DRM-free and I hope, at least for the CD version, that it's still the case with Demigod (Will test as soon as my CD arrive)

Don't seem so, both Sins (with Entrenchment) and Galciv use a file called SDActivate.exe  while Demigod use ReactorActivate.exe.

They do, but with GalCiv or Sins, destroy the file and a new one will be automatically recreated next time you start the game, do the same with Demigod and it ask you to reactivate.

I was gonna ask: are you sure it uses Goo? Because I'm not sure it does. I don't think that it installs system drivers like Securom does. And I can start Demigod without having to run Impulse, quite unlike Steam.

I'm with Netriak on this, all Stardock games since GalCiv 2 require an online activation with Impulse (or SDCentral at the time). If you buy games directly on Impulse, they are already linked to your account, though.

I tried that. I was forced to reactivate when I moved/renamed/destroyed the sig.bin files. At least with sins of a solar Empire. And twilight, and dark avatar...

No I am not sure, like I said I only supposed it might me Goo because it seemed to me it was different than before.

(By the way, the online version of securom doesn't install any drivers, it's the CD-check flavor that does, and not all version, of course you have games that use both online activation and CD-check)

Strange.. which version of GalCiv do you own ? I have the ultimate v1.53.

You are starting to worry me a lot here, I will try to redownload both Sins and GalCiv from scratch to test... If it no longer works that would realy sucks... (While I am at it I will also re-download Braid and Puzzle Quest...)

I have the latest version of galciv2 with all expansions, downloaded through impulse, version 2.02. Which is a lot newer than 1.53. But all versions have had this behavior, and the ultimate edition is supposed to be 2.02 already.

Of course, since the twilight sig.bin is not stored in the installation directory, it is quite possible it will not be removed by uninstall, which can explain certain anomalies such as installing it on a computer and not needing an activation.

Now, the versions on the retail dvd's are supposed to be different, and should not require activation. If you have the ultimate version on disc, and if you installed from the disc, that could explain the noticed behaviour.

Of course, Braid, being not a Stardock published game, does not require activation.

Oh, I've also done some checking and reading about this goo, and demigod. The protection used by demigod does not match the feature set claimed by Goo. For example, the Demigod executable is not encrypted, which it would be if Goo was employed. The activation/protection system looks most like the library based Impulse Reactor Digital Protection Framework mentioned in the impulse reactor white paper.

When you're moving the game from one computer to the next, are you simply copying the files, archiving it, or re-downloading it? Each process will have different quirks about it.

Ok I did the test (re-download Braid, Puzzle Quest G, GalCiv2 and Sins from scratch) and I have to say I am pretty disapointed.

Braid and Puzzle Quest are still DRM-free... luckily.

Unlike yours my GalCiv2 Ultimate is also still DRM-free (Actually I also have version 2.02, 1.53 is the version of the file, when you right click on it, not the version of the game).

However after re-download my Sins is no longer DRM-free and now ask me for reactivation like yours... that sucks. I tried installing it from the CD and after updating it, same result. 

I have to say that I am really disapointed, that's just silly, if anything I expect a patch to actually remove a DRM/copy protection, not add a new one where there wasn't any, this will definitely made me reconsider buying new Stardock games in the future. (The irony is that the main reason why I bought Demigod was because I thought it was DRM-free)

I don't know why my GalCiv2 is DRM-free and yours isn't, but my "theory" (It's only a suposition I don't know for sure) is that it's DRM-free because I bought directly the Ultimate version (download + CD)  and maybe there isn't any released patch for it yet. That would means that if one is ever released then my version too will stop being DRM-free.

That's actually kind of silly, it means that if you are a loyal fan and bought the game since day one then you are stuck with DRM but on the other side the guy who like me waited several years and bought the cheaper bundle got the DRM-free version.

Anyway I now got my answers concerning Demigod... just not the answer I was expecting...

I agree with the OP. I really don't get it why the retail Demigod is drm free (until you need to update, that is..), while the digital isn't. They are both easy to pirate, if someone really wants to. Steam only games are pirated the day they are released, so i imagine the same for Impulse. Most of the Stardock/Impulse games are not DRM free, this is bs. There are just DRM light. But not "drm free", as they are advertised.

The reason is actually quite simple. Stardock's DRM requires internet activation. There is no guarantee that someone who has bought the retail version even has an internet connection. However, if someone is capeable of downloading a patch, well, they obviously have some way to connect to the internet, so requiring internet activation is no longer an issue.

And no, they are not DRM free. The advertisments of Stardock were: "no DRM on the disc". Which is true. And "no disc-based DRM", which is true also. The point of the DRM was not to stop pirates, but to make pirating the game more annoying than being a legit customer, since the pirate will have to wait for a crack and manually assembled patch every time Stardock updates the game. Of course, this is only true if the customer has internet access on his gaming computer, since transfering updates to offline computers is a major hassle with stardock's system.

If the pirates took more then a couple of hours to release such a game, than, yes, this DRM can be considered annoying. See Tages or Starforce, now that's what i call an annoying DRM (for the pirates, as well as for the legal user). But at the present time, i repeat: they are cracking and releasing games protected with Securom, Steam or Impulse, the day they are released officialy. I really don't think this DRM is as annoying for the pirates as you think...

I 100% agree.

Yes you are right, they never said that the games would remain DRM-free forever, but honestly I find that a little borderline, I am sure a lot of peoples made the same mistake than I did, heck some peoples might even call that "lying by omission"; Stardock say very often, in interview, online, everywhere, that their games (at least the retail version) are DRM-free... they just completely forgot to mention that this DRM-free-ness is just temporary and that as soon as you update the game you might/will have a DRM installed.

If companies use DRM it's their choice, they have to right to do so (even if I dont like it), but they should at least be upfront about it. I would prefer if Stardock, like they do for games using securom, indicate in the game profile if the game is really DRM-free (like Braid or Puzzle Quest) or if it's using Goo or any other Stardock DRM; and when they say in an interview that their games are "DRM-free" they should not forget to mention the limitations of this DRM-free-ness. 
 

And it is only true for customers who don't mind the online activation, the poor souls who bought the game because they thought it would be DRM-free and who want it to remain that way, are stuck forever with an outdated version while on the other side the pirates are just maybe just one or two version behind.

By curiosity, if you don't mind of course, could you please take a look at your GalCiv2.exe file (I am still wandering why my GalCiv version is still DRM-free while yours isn't), what is it's size and version ? Mine is version 1.53 (file version not game version), 4'071'728 bytes, modified 26.11.2008. Thanks.

But there is an activation limit for all Stardock games I think. Look at this. I really want to buy the game but this limit is really annoying. I want to play the game on my notebook, my home homputer and everywhere I go like Steam (opent the client download and play). Demigod is using same activation limit isn't it? If there is a revoke tool for activations it's ok for me.

http://www.impulsedriven.com/support/activation_info.aspx

Yes, they should mention the online activation of their own games on the game pages too, I agree. And their no DRM on the disc statements are misleading. Perhaps you should send Stardock an email and ask them to mention the activation requirements more clearly on the impulse store game pages, after all, the fact that the "iron grip warlord" page mentions it uses Impulse reactor under protection, means they consider it a protection scheme worth mentioning.

Concerning Galciv2.exe, although my version number is the same, the date and size are not. Size = 4,063,536 bytes on my game, and date is 4 November 2008. My GC2TwilightOfTheArnor.exe size is 5,509,392 bytes.

Concerning activation limits, deactivation is completely unnecessary. Read the impulse roadmap post about intelligent activation:

http://frogboy.impulsedriven.net/article/345381/Impulse_Road_Map

Basically, there should not be any problems if you use it in a normal way. And in case there is a problem, Stardock has quickly reset activation limits in the past.

Read that again, you should not be able to reach the limit all by yourself.