pyalot pyalot

Impulse DRM

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Impulse DRM

Just call it by its name and get the shame

http://islanddog.impulsedriven.net/article/344308/Stardock_throws_GOO_on_DRM
from Stardock Forums

Dear Stardock, I'm sorely thoroughly dissapointed in you. You claim you do no DRM, yet you introduce a technology that encrypts the whole game and requires you to associate that container with your account.

A DRM hs the following properties:

  • it encrypts the content
  • The key for decryption is hidden from the user
  • Decryption happens on demand trough the DRM code

Impulse has the following properties:

  • it encrypts the content
  • The key for decryption is hidden from the user
  • Decryption happens on demand trough the DRM code

Now you may object "wait, but we don't do any of the other evil things". But that's not the point. Already you violate your own Gamers Bill of rights point 8 "Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers." by showing intent on possibly restricting a users rights (otherwise there'd be no need for the whole container/encryption farce)

At this point, pretty much the promise (and yes it is a promise) not to phone home and not tie an installation of a game to the hardware etc becomes pretty much meaningless. You showed you're willing to sacrifice the freedom of the Gamer already, and by all likelyhood the code to tie a container to a machine and to phone home everytime it starts is already in place, though not active until you "kill" a gamers installation (because you think he copied to much etc.).

 

 

 

off-topic
789,785 views 245 replies
Reply #101 from Stardock Forums Top

Few of us actually use IE7 as a browser (including SD), but we all have it because it's a critical Windows component. So people complaining about the IE7 requirement is like complaining that a game requires DirectX and wondering why they can't just rewrite it with OpenGL
End of quote

You might be aware that Windows7 is going to be entirely stripped off IE in the European Union because of antitrust issues.

Reply #102 from Sins Forums Top

SD (and its fanboys)
End of quote

Weren't you complaining about personal insults a little higher up on this page? The hypocrisy is strong with you, young one.

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top

You might be aware that Windows7 is going to be entirely stripped off IE in the European Union because of antitrust issues.
End of quote

That's nice. Impulse was around long before any news about Win7 started cropping up.

Reply #104 from Stardock Forums Top

Weren't you complaining about personal insults a little higher up on this page? The hypocrisy is strong with you, young one.
End of quote

You find fanboy offensive? Mea Culpa, however I think you need to know thyself, and if nothing else you pretty much seem to be a SD fanboy. That's ok, I'm a Linux and python fanboy too, nothing to be ashamed of, embrace your inner fanboy.

Reply #105 from Stardock Forums Top

That's nice. Impulse was around long before any news about Win7 started cropping up.
End of quote

is this an apology for relying on a single browser, a justification to ignore common web development wisdom, or a dare to the European Union/Windows7 to better put IE on that system or else... Impulse will not run?

Reply #106 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

You might be aware that Windows7 is going to be entirely stripped off IE in the European Union because of antitrust issues.
End of quote

Actually not quite. While Win7 has the option to remove IE, it only disposes of the user frontend. Mshtml.dll will and must remain because it is an integral part of the OS (file explorer, help system, etc), so any other software that uses mshtml will continue to work as well.

Reply #107 from Stardock Forums Top

so any other software that uses mshtml will continue to work as well.
End of quote

Damn, and it felt too good to be true.

Reply #108 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

That's what you (Stardock) get for doing DRM, and that's what you'll continue to get more and more.
End of quote

Now, i won't bother going through the busy morning everyone just had above for three pages worth, but lemme be clear.

You're against DRM as you clearly stated in your initial comment. Fine, enjoy what you bought... Goo it as much as you *WILL* like later... and let SD decide how to run their business & why.

Basically, what this adds up to is that even though solutions are proposed to consumers to protect their products there will always be those against it for a simple reason; hack it, for free and to cut off the revenues earned the hard way by coders, artists, developpers and people HIRED and working.

Don't pay for something (however it is handled during distribution - virtual or not, btw), you ARE a thief. Piracy is blasting jobs right off your family & neighbors life perspectives.

Go to prison and don't pass Go-o.

Reply #109 from Sins Forums Top

You find fanboy offensive?
End of quote

There's little I find offensive, especially here, but that doesn't change the fact that you meant it as a (what you thought) was a sly insult, else you'd have wrote 'supporters'.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, no matter how well disguised the attempt.

Reply #110 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quoting pyalot, reply 1
You know silencing consumers has a long and glorious tradition with DRM proponents. Go on, make my day. I've stated my case and I'm not alone. The truth is out there and it will find you too.
End of pyalot's quote

I prefer the local Truth and its evidence to anything outside our Forums.

I've always been free to talk & comment with SD staff in an EXTREMELY usefull manner overhere.

Moderators are swift, kind are tolerant about worst situations.

But YOUR attack on SD policies and how deeply screwed up your counter arguments have been so far tells me that even if anti-DRM were to prove that it's unfeasible for them or us customers, it still would have to be replaced with other new unhackable **temporary** attempts to justify a budget for fabrication of items.

Elemental, Demigod, name it... precious enough to protect.

Sure, you aren't alone as do many of us with different opinions. It's not a majority contest, it's a social principle and how some personal values interact with the economy as a whole.

Sun makes Open-Office.org. MS sells their Office suite.

Both are either legal, installed, purchased or illegally used by crooks.

End of story.

Reply #111 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Zyxpsilon, reply 10

Sun makes Open-Office.org. MS sells their Office suite.
End of Zyxpsilon's quote

Let me correct you...

 

The communauty make Open-office.org ... Sun sells Star Office based on Open-office.org and MS sells his own Office suite...

 

About the topic itself, these who know me can define me like a guy who complain a lot about Stardock... Why ? Stardock is really the best between all the game distributor but they have some little default who annoy me...

 

What people call here DRM is nothing more that a "activation" thing... like the majority of people are used to make with their prefered OS called windows... but it is better that windows, you game will work more that 30 days if you don't activate it... the only similar thing is that you will not have the update...

 

My main complain about Stardock is their release strategy... it seem that all is perfect for US citizen but that European one are second class citizen for them... that Impulse only work on Windows ( the old Stardock central was working on Linux )... Being a fan of Stardock, i feel betray because more and more, they choose a programming who exclude other OS... It will obligate me to use pirated version for run on my two primary OS ( Linux and solaris ), using my remaining OS ( XP 64 pro ) for buy a key and receive the update... yes, again a honest customer obligate to turn to the pirate side to be able to use his loved software... Stardock will see no difference in his money income since until now, i buy a serial... but soon of later, i will be tired of these difficulty and i will only download illegal software...

 

Yes, actually, Stardock is the best on the market... but they are ar to be perfect... no problem with this since nobody can be perfect... the problem is that they seem to follow the wrong path... they have invest 1 million in Sins, for return they have already 10 million... it is 1000% !!! Seem to be a good deal... Original Sins was without DRM or any other protection... it is the main reason of the success... now, they wish add thing who will make flee a lot of customer... at the end, Stardock will loose a share of his income, in a very bad case they will die...

 

In the last 20 years, it is not the first time that i see a GOOD compagny die because a a simple bad choice... i will be very sorry that this happen to Stardock because i like them vey much... to be honest, i don't specially like them but they make game who are like drugs... once you try them, you cannot stop usinf them !!!

Reply #112 from Stardock Forums Top

@Zyxpsilon

I'm not going to satisfy your thirst for a flamewar and neither am I going to pick apart your utterings piece by piece for all of the factual and logical mistakes.

If you want to have a reasoned debate about weather DRM is good or not please inform yourself first, I suggest this for further consumption.

By simply attacking me as a thief, pirate and crook you do a disservice to your point of view (whatever that may be). You also do a disservice to SD since I take it this is precisely the impression they want to avoid.

You re-iterate again the need for copy protection and DRM to battle pirates and to do profit. As has been stated repeatedly by SD employees and Brad, they do not believe that copy protection and DRM is required for the reasons you seem to imply.

If you're making an unreasonable and incoherent reply to a thread, I'd apreciate it if you'd actually read it trough so we don't need to have the same discussion again we closed about 3 pages ago.

Reply #113 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Gir92, reply 25

Quoting Lord KiRon, reply 12Btw: it's really interesting how this GOO will affect StarDock sales, I mean up until now StarDock was persived as "one of our guys" on all the trackers, people were telling each other - buy this game , they are anti-DRM so by buying it you show that games without DRM can sell well. I am not sure how big part of the GalCiv success was this approach after all it's a damn good games but it was there, I saw people buying just almost anything from StarDock just to "support" them as being no-DRM company to show it can make profit. Now when this image will be gone ... interesting what will happen, the games are still good but how sales will be affected? My bet the StarDock games will be pirated more.

 

Hasn't Stardock already stated that they will not use Goo on their own games, and that this is just for 3rd party publishers?
End of Gir92's quote

Again: As always, our retail CDs have nothing on them. Demigod, Sins, GalCiv, etc. There's nothing.

Again: As always, our digitally distributed content will have some sort of account validation. Demigod, Sins, GalCiv, etc.

All we've done is make it so that others can use what we've been using for the past 7 years easily.

Reply #114 from Demigod Forums Top

Ah it has come to this now has it? I'm a member here since yesterday. And if you really where a company dedicated to consumers happyness you'd have thought twice before becoming a DRM systems enabler. I'm merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Now the powers that be threaten to bann/silence me because I've become a public disturbance. Stirring up controversy not appreciated I see. You know silencing consumers has a long and glorious tradition with DRM proponents. Go on, make my day. I've stated my case and I'm not alone. The truth is out there and it will find you too.
End of quote

You created an account to flame. You're not a customer. Go find another forum to troll. 

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Reply #115 from Stardock Forums Top

You created an account to flame. You're not a customer. Go find another forum to troll.
End of quote

And customers do not flame? Regardless, now everytime I walk past one of your games I'll remember your sound advice, I'm sure that's going to help much in making my money loose. Carry on.

Reply #116 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quoting pyalot, reply 15

               You created an account to flame. You're not a customer. Go find another forum to troll.
And customers do not flame? Regardless, now everytime I walk past one of your games I'll remember your sound advice, I'm sure that's going to help much in making my money loose. Carry on.
End of pyalot's quote

Your mind was made up before you came here.

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Reply #117 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting pyalot, reply 15

You created an account to flame. You're not a customer. Go find another forum to troll.

And customers do not flame? Regardless, now everytime I walk past one of your games I'll remember your sound advice, I'm sure that's going to help much in making my money loose. Carry on.
End of pyalot's quote

Yes.  Those who are familiar with Stardock at all know our policy of not wanting kooks as customers.  Some people are under the delusion that Stardock wants everyone as a customer. That is not true.  That's one of the benefits of being a privately held company. 

The CEO will hang out and discuss things on the forums but that also means you're going to get the unvarnished truth.  

Reply #118 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

If you're making an unreasonable and incoherent reply to a thread, I'd apreciate it if you'd actually read it trough so we don't need to have the same discussion again we closed about 3 pages ago.
End of quote

Oh, well... my mistake(s). Sorry for having misinterpreted a few things above.

Still, everything looked sooooo damn close to 'justify' DRM as a final solution to Piracy -- language barrier in my case, so please be gentle & somehow tolerant of others!

I could tackle up a good stable and highly precise french conversation with anybody here, though. :jafo:

Reply #119 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quoting Thoumsin, reply 11

Quoting Zyxpsilon, reply 10
Sun makes Open-Office.org. MS sells their Office suite.

Let me correct you...
End of Thoumsin's quote

I stand corrected... but the analogy is alllllmmmmooooosssssttt the same for bazillions more softwares.

Reply #120 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

they have invest 1 million in Sins, for return they have already 10 million... it is 1000% !!!
End of quote

 

Ooopss, not so says the accountant that i've been for many, many years;

Do read this link for a proof (aside from formal highly private numbers by ownership, btw);

https://forums.galciv2.com/344252/page/1/#2113819

 

Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 14

You created an account to flame. You're not a customer. Go find another forum to troll. 
End of Frogboy's quote

 

This is very low... what evidence do you have for say that these guy is not a customer...

 

It remember me when Stardock team have treat me like a dog because my first version of sins was a pirated one ( no choice since the game was not yet released in Europa at these time )... Since i have buy several boxed version of sins and have find a solution to buy the entrenchment version myself ( no reply from the support team )...

 

More, i have ask on these forum if it was possible to buy more license key for entrenchment for make them gift to other people... but no reply...

 

Seem that Stardock accept our money without problem but ignore some of their customer...

 

If you really think that these guy is a fraud, ask him to PM you his CD key... If he is a fraud, he will not be able to make it... until you can prove the reverse, these guy is not guilty of anything... If he don't reply to your request, he become suspicious... if he reply wrong, he is guilty... but don't judge him on nothing...

Reply #122 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

This is very low... what evidence do you have for say that these guy is not a customer...
End of quote

I'm going to go with the theory that the CEO of a company can easily check to see if someone's forum account is tied to any products the company sells or otherwise distributes.

If the person in question felt the need to create an account separately from their account that actually does have any such products on it, then it's almost certain they created the new one for some kind of flaming purpose.

Additionally, even if that were the case, filtering by last IP address login isn't that hard, albeit not difficult to circumvent.  Then there's cookies, if they're using the same computer.  And I seem to remember an ability to filter based on MAC addresses, but I could be mistaken.

Oh, and did I mention that most people use the same password for practically everything?  If the password's the same (which you don't even have to know the password to know; just have the system, which stores it, do a compare), it's practically a guarantee it's the same person.

-

I'm sorry your experience wasn't better, but this guy's purposes are fairly obvious.

Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top

This is very low... what evidence do you have for say that these guy is not a customer...
End of quote

The fact that his account was just created, meaning he wouldn't have anything registered to it? And not like Frogboy couldn't check it :P

Reply #124 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13

Quoting Gir92, reply 25
Quoting Lord KiRon, reply 12Btw: it's really interesting how this GOO will affect StarDock sales, I mean up until now StarDock was persived as "one of our guys" on all the trackers, people were telling each other - buy this game , they are anti-DRM so by buying it you show that games without DRM can sell well. I am not sure how big part of the GalCiv success was this approach after all it's a damn good games but it was there, I saw people buying just almost anything from StarDock just to "support" them as being no-DRM company to show it can make profit. Now when this image will be gone ... interesting what will happen, the games are still good but how sales will be affected? My bet the StarDock games will be pirated more.

 

Hasn't Stardock already stated that they will not use Goo on their own games, and that this is just for 3rd party publishers?

Again: As always, our retail CDs have nothing on them. Demigod, Sins, GalCiv, etc. There's nothing.

Again: As always, our digitally distributed content will have some sort of account validation. Demigod, Sins, GalCiv, etc.

All we've done is make it so that others can use what we've been using for the past 7 years easily.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

Ahh my apologies. Thanks for the clarification.

Reply #125 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Additionally, even if that were the case, filtering by last IP address login isn't that hard, albeit not difficult to circumvent. Then there's cookies, if they're using the same computer. And I seem to remember an ability to filter based on MAC addresses, but I could be mistaken.
End of quote

 

Ahhh, the beauty of syssoping onto a server solid enough to detect anything, i miss those days -- too.

IVp6 makes it even wordy & coder friendly, hexadecimal tagging is soooo much more precise.

:w00t: