I know.  The Thalans were the last stock race I played. 

Interestingly, that's about the only instance in which I'd consider an asteroid mine more valuable (with regards to the discussion in the other thread).

Sole Soul:

Yeah, I got tired waiting for the Espionage patch so I stopped playing for a while.  I'm playing again.

As far as I could figure, initial Yor economy matches Iconian economy for the manufacturing in terms of efficiency for maintenance, but does not match the Iconian's Precursor Archive and Library for tech, which was only matched in practical output in terms of efficiency, I find, by the Torians.  Of course, Iconian tech buildings are very strong on the tile and on the maintenance - you don't see their ilk in other trees until Research Academies, and even then they're still better.

Too, Iconians have the one-per-planet +50% econ building, which is also fairly strong.

The Yor may have a similarities with the Iconian tree in overview, but in terms of play, it's nothing like the same because of key differences in building availability.

Oh?

How do you like it?

I do apologize for being blunt-as you may recall, you do tend to bring that out in me.  Our styles are too different, it seems.

Although I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to play a custom with the Yor tree rather than the Yor themselves, if you do so you can start with research centers, which gives you a spammable lab.  Interestingly, this means you can rush NLCs immediately if you so choose.  I do however agree that the Iconian tree, without assistance, has the edge in tech.

I was going to complain about their lack of spammable econ buildings, or rather that their spammable econ building is only 14%, but I realized that the Yor completely lack spammable econ buildings, meaning even with the Yor econ bonuses through techs the Iconian tree gets more money when they have the merchant trade complex and at least three merchant emporiums per planet.

I love the Espionage adjustments.  It had exactly what I had asked for, which is why I wanted it so much.  If it's any indication, it's spurred me to try out the Drath, which I was completely unwilling to do before.  Not that the Drath are any particularly good at spying.

When playing as the Iconians, I typically trade for Trade Centers, so I can put up Trade Centers alongside the Merchant Trade Complex.  Of course, you could also do so with the Yor, but their one-time native econ center is the Efficiency Center, which gives only +25%, compared to MTC which gives +50% for a one tile investment.   Coupled with Iconian Morale, Dream Conclave and generic bonuses, I generally find the econ side of management a lot easier with the Iconians than with the Yor, which is part of why I enjoy playing them more.

Having said that, I play better with the Yor, even though I do not like the experience.  Their ability to just spam out those colony ships is almost unfair.

To maintain the racial balance, the ability to trade for techs not in your civ's tech tree should not be allowed.  For example, the Thalans have very few soldiering techs, no Orbital Bombardment, no Tidal assault, no Stellar Marines, making them relatively weak in ground assault.  They do have 1 good +30% soldiering tech, but this is super expensive.  However, if they buy all those missing soldiering techs from other civs, coupled with their own formidable tech, they suddenly change from a weak to a powerful soldiering civ.  I don't think the developers intended this when they designed the tech tree to be missing those standard soldiering techs.

The developers intended and knew there to be tech trading in the game.  In fact, particular techs cannot be traded.  I feel that the differing tech trees in the game makes for more robust trading - you're a lot more willing to pay for tech you just can't research yourself.

The problem is does the AI know how to exploit this or recognise the human's intention when trading for these techs?

Tech trading against the AI is always going to be a problem.  That doesn't mean that tech trading isn't part of the game.

Fistleaf,

No, but the AI does do at least a decent job of recognizing what techs it values and making you pay dearly for them. If you turn off the "tech brokering" option (which I do), then you limit that aspect even more.

I am not advocating turning off tech brokering.  It's just that some civs can gain quite a significant advantage by trading for a few select techs not in their tech tree.  I can't help thinking that those techs that are not in their tech tree are purposely omitted to counterbalance the advantages of that civ.

Maybe that's why the Thalans have -30% diplomacy, then. 

Even with -30% diplomacy, I don't mind paying more for the essential techs.  The benefits (cheaper manufacturing facilities, cheaper research facilities, soldiering) far outweight the disadvantages.

Which is the point.  If you all had the same tech trees, the incentive to trade techs would be that much less - it wouldn't be as interesing.