My game feels really freaking slow

also, need help with micro

from Sins Forums

So I played a game and I felt really really slow. I am playing the vasari btw.

I do not have any trouble with starting. However, I have a lot of trouble with mid game and lategame.

First, I learned from my game today what RA does. It basically saves you 2000 credits each time you use it. However, what are the best frigates to supplement it? Spamming RA does not seem to be a smart idea because you get only cruisers.

Similarly, subverters. I don't know how much they are worth. I can't micro them. They don't seem to use their damage mitigation ability often. I also build overseers because they don't come with RA. I don't know how to make effective use of it.

Also, what is a good income rate? I managed to hit 40.0, 9.0 and 4.0.

So this is my fleet composition, 50% carriers, 10% LRM, 1 cap ship, 10% subverters, 10% flak frigates, and 15% heavy cruisers and 5% overseer (midgame). Later it became 3 cap ships (I had to split up my fleet and didn't wanna use siege frigates), 40% carriers, 20%LRM, 10% skirmishers, 15% heavy cruisers and 5% overseer. (late game).

How do I micro my abilities when there are like 300 ships on the screen? I understand that most ships target what they are supposed to but it would be nice to learn how to refocus. So how do you guys micro the special abilities? I just jam em in there and hope they know how to use it right. Also, it seems to me that 50 fighters should wipe out 15 fighters but it takes a reaaallly long time.

Also, what is the consensus on enslaved labor and its cohorts? It doesn't seem worth it to me.

Finally, how do you wipe out a world? Sieging a planet takes me like 10 minutes. The vacuum works wonders on asteroids but otherwise really slow.

strategy
10,814 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

If the game is slow, turn up the speed options to fast when you are setting up the teams etc...

RA does give you ships other then cruisers - generally it is a mix of carriers, assailants, skirmishers, enforcers or sentinels

Those incomes are not that great for mid game, and even for late game when your fleet supply is high (assuming the map is reasonably sized here). Being vassari, you should own heaps of neutral mines, and any race can get good credit by stacking trade ports...

Subs can disable ships with the upgrade ability - good for stopping illums etc... for a short period.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

So what is a good credit income rate then? I did feel that the resources could have been gathered faster, but I am not sure what a good one is.

Also note, I owned every neutral extractor except one. I built orbital refineries in every planet that was near 3 asteroids.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Did you also research the resource upgrades?

On larger maps (i.e. single system, large/huge) it is not uncommon to have resources close to (or sometime highter) then 10, and credits getting up to 100 or higher. Though quite often, the player who has done this has gone eco to feed other players who go military (done due to the military upkeep costs)

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

The common mistake (I was making it too before I came to these forums and read the general strategy tips threads) was putting one trade port in every planet.  I implicitly believed that trade ports didn't stack, which is wrong.  Two trade ports in the same planet means double the trade income.  Now imagine five or six.  Hence, you want to max out logistics upgrades and fill them with trade ports.  You'll have a crazy amount of income going before long.

 

Resource (metal and crystal) incomes vary dramatically from one map to the next.  Aside from ensuring you own every available resource node and getting the resource upgrades, it's more the map and colonization priority and less your strategy that affects these income rates.  I find refineries are woefully inefficient for producing metal and crystal when compared to how trade ports produce credits, but if you need those resources it's basically the only way to boost production without capturing new territory.

 

Also, I was under the impression that when you gave resources to another player it was considered a form of income and therefor subject to upkeep (send 100 credits to player with 50% upkeep and he receives 50 credits, that's what I thought).  Is this not the case?  Seems that would make it somewhat pointless to be constantly feeding, since you'd be paying upkeep anyways.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

No - fairly sure if you give 100 credits (250 if you hold down shift - big tip there people), they get it all!!!

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Nope, it takes out the fleet upkeep out of it.

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I think it is Returning Amarda for the vasari

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Returning Armada - look at Vassari tech tree (civil)

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Wow RA is dead when people can't even remeber it

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

I use RA in longer games.  It works fabulous.  Until I get RA I'm usually pretty equal in terms of fleet size to overage ICO player.  Once I get RA I double my fleet in no time.

Anyway, that income he listed is not bad.  True enough playing vs AI I could get 500 credits a second with 30 metal/crystal on a gigantic map.  But it is way more than I need anyway :)  If you gonna RA it's good to maximize your crystal income, as you can always sell your metal for the credits.  But buying crystal will slow you down economically.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

As for subverters, I value them greatly once you have distortion field.:drool:    I think they combo very well with lots of assailants + missle discharge.  Once you catch a group of frigates in the distortion field and their shields are weakened by the subverters the mass of assailants + area effect takes makes quick work of em.

Thats my take on suberters, anyone else?

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Really? Fleet upkeep comes out of trades? I never knew that. So if I give my teamate credits/resources, does it take out my upkeep % or my teamates upkeep %? Is there somewhere where it shows you how much he actually got from you, or do you just do the math in your head?

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

The tooltip when you mouseover "give 100" says that it calculates the receiver upkeep.

The result is hidden.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

I am playing the game on large map now and I easily got my credits up to 65+. The trouble I was having was I did not know where to build my labs/frigate factories. I am keeping 5 or so planets completely on trade routes. I also got my metal to hit 11+ and my crystal to hit  9+, as I made sure to indulge my resource rich neighbors with refineries. I don't build trade posts wherever because it seems counter intuitive to building a good, long trade route. Also, if my trade routes aren't part of the long highlighted routes, does it gain the same benefit?

I have to say, once vasari hits mid game, phase gates take a life on their own and really frees up ship manufacturing.

This game (the one I mentioned before) has been really fun so far, I detected an artifact in the hands of a Tec heathen who was hated by everyone. I slammed the tec's homeworlds while my buddy took out the one desert planet on the fringe. Quickly, I realized that the desert planet had an artifact in it, but my nearest migrator&egg was at least 2-3 jumps away while he was already jumping into the planet. Luckily, I had built a frigate factory one jump away, but I didn't have suffecient supply. So I had to scuttle my migrator, build a new one, and have it jump into the desert planet. By this time, my allies migrator had already arrived and was waiting for anti-matter and I was literally counting down every second to see if I would make it. When the opponent's migrator hit 89 antimatter, my frigate activated its ability and I stole the planet from him. :) Epic.

Yay for constructing ships with full antimatter.

And the best part was that the artifact was DATA ARCHIVE! Second game where I got this artifact. I am going for RA again of course. :) It should be rather easy this time with my semi-decent crystal income.

 

I am giving subverters another try. I am also going to build more skirms since I think they are underused for what they do. And what's everyone's opinion on the enforcer (heavy cruiser)? I am mostly using carriers and assailants but finally got my subverters and overseers into the front lines now. I am finding the list in the left side really helpful for microing.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Enforcers are great!  Once you have the special abilities to slow enemy ships down + self heal and the weapon/ armor/ shield upgraded, their like mini cap ships themselves! 

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Really? Fleet upkeep comes out of trades? I never knew that. So if I give my teamate credits/resources, does it take out my upkeep % or my teamates upkeep %? Is there somewhere where it shows you how much he actually got from you, or do you just do the math in your head?
End of quote

We were discussing this in the lobby last night prior to launching a game - general consensus is this statement is wrong - you get 100% of what is given to you, otherwise you would have double tax on this income - if they have 200 credits income at 50% tax, they receive 100 and give it to you - taxing the 100 at say 50% again so you get 100 would result in the game taxing 75% of the initial 200!!!

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

We were discussing this in the lobby last night prior to launching a game - general consensus is this statement is wrong - you get 100% of what is given to you, otherwise you would have double tax on this income - if they have 200 credits income at 50% tax, they receive 100 and give it to you - taxing the 100 at say 50% again so you get 100 would result in the game taxing 75% of the initial 200!!!
End of quote

As I said while everyone was arguing, someone should just test this rather than speculate......

So I did -- Aggroed and myself tested it out, and feeds are indeed taxed by the reciever's Logistics penalty.  So when you count the givers logistics penalty, YES, there is a double tax involved!

Feeding is still critical early game for the people who are in the frontline, especially when they are at low logistics.  But late game as their logistics penalty climbs, it is important for everyone to start fielding a fleet.