Sins gets a sweet plug from the A-bomb on Spore DRM protest

Reply #1 September 13, 2008 11:07 AM from

Sins Forums Top

whoa, that was pretty insane, im definetely not getting spore, maybe stardock will make a game like this... that would be sweet.

Reply #2 September 13, 2008 1:01 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Yeah it gets even worse when one really looks at the game play dynamics. Joystiq recently published a 10 reason why you should not purchase Spore. additionally when one counts all the different Amazon reviews on the different country domains the A-bombing takes on some serious scale. Moreover on several sites I have seen SD referred to as the lone standup to the scourge of DRM. I guess what happens with DemiGod sales will decide if Sins was a fluke or simply a success helped by not having DRM.

Reply #3 September 13, 2008 5:15 PM from

Stardock Forums Top

Er..Spartan, what's the deal with the..larger portion of your post?

Anyway, I'm considering buying a copy of Sins of a Solar Empire instead of Spore. I've also coated nearly half of the forums, including subforums, for EA's games with threads containing the Gamer's Bill of Rights. I'm suspecting I'll be banned, but perhaps, by some lucky chance, the idea will be conveyed.

Long live Stardock!

Reply #4 September 13, 2008 6:45 PM from

Sins Forums Top

id software is like stardock to, they just dont publish so drm gets put on thee products. they even support share ware versoins of they software after a set time since its release.

Reply #5 September 13, 2008 8:58 PM from

Sins Forums Top

@Gmr - Regarding the font code in my posts, as I said in other threads "beats me". It is only for this forum and this skin - very strange to me...

On the the topic of you purcahsing Sins. You can't wrong with the purchase if you are even remotly interested is such a game.

Reply #6 September 13, 2008 9:39 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Here's the excerpt from the article.

If there's a lesson learned from Stardock, which has enjoyed strong success with sales numbers surpassing 500,000 from its recent, DRM-free PC game Sins of a Solar Empire, it's that gamers do not want DRM. The long-standing argument holds: DRM only punishes legitimate consumers who want to pay for the software they own. And even with all this DRM, Spore still hit the web illegally immediately. EA, and all publishers, should be paying attention. Gamers have spoken, and DRM on games is futile—whether the criticisms are whitewashed or not.

End of quote

If only SoaSE customers knew the trap they were getting themselves into--the trap of Stardock's newly-concocted Impulse, a DRM/customer "lock-in" program. According to current knowledge, Impulse will be mandatory for customers to acquire future patches from Impulse, as well as many other Stardock exclusive "deals"/etc.

And yet Stardock is anti-DRM? What a joke. This is a classic textbook example of Stardock's two-faced marketing scheme--lure in customers by pretending to be a "good guy", then lock them in with the same garbage that they tried to escape.

Just remember Frogboy,

Gamers have spoken, and DRM on games is futile—whether the criticisms are whitewashed or not.

End of quote

p.s. Also, prohibiting my original account from posting isn't exactly a genuine way to solve this whole DRM fiasco, although considering your past/present actions, I wouldn't put it below you.

Reply #7 September 13, 2008 9:59 PM from

Sins Forums Top

They put no controls into the software, it all runs out of the box with nothing required from you at all, and will do so for as long as you can find a compatible operating system. You are not entitled to content updates, you do not buy them when you buy the game. They only make requirements of their customers to gain additional quality.

If they start releasing bug riddled shit that doesn't run out of the box, you might have a point. At this point, Stardock is the best company I can think of for releasing software with minimal bug issues. Pissing and moaning just because they make you get an account to use their server to download their free updates to your game is juvenile.

Grow up.

Reply #8 September 13, 2008 10:08 PM from

Sins Forums Top

I hardly think that any of their recent games has DRM on it.

And a download program is hardly considered drm, since it's not restricting "Digital Rights Managment"

Reply #9 September 13, 2008 10:14 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 7

You are not entitled to content updates, you do not buy them when you buy the game. They only make requirements of their customers to gain additional quality.

End of psychoak's quote

and

The Gamer's Bill of Rights

3) Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

8) Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

End of quote

Do you see any contradictions here?

Stardock's "Gamer's' Bill of Rights"

Reply #10 September 14, 2008 12:00 AM from

Sins Forums Top

Yes, you expect meaningfull updates, and you get meaningfull updates, via impulse.

While needing a cd-key to update the game is a tad rude, there has to ben an incentive for people who didn't pay for it to actually purchase it.

I downloaded GalCiv2 a long time back, than decided to purchase it when I heard about their huge patches.

Reply #11 September 14, 2008 12:02 AM from

Sins Forums Top

EDIT (since 'edit' option simply sends me to quick replay)

typing in a dozen letters or digits to get patches is barely any work.

Reply #12 September 14, 2008 12:40 AM from

Sins Forums Top

@Venym1 - Go away. You surely lack understanding of the situation from both a proper personal and business perspective. You are trolling and trying to grind an ax on an ill perceived situation on your part. I’m a major anti-DRM and “copyfighter” activist and I have no problems with SD’s model and practices. They are extremely reasonable to say the least. There may be tech issues here and there but again not unreasonable.

Reply #13 September 14, 2008 12:39 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Just to be clear, the concept of "Digital Rights Management" has broken off from its original purpose. There is nothing, and has never been anything, wrong with a company implementing measures to protect people from obtaining and using their software without consent/payment. What there is something wrong with is the idea that by implementing a protection mechanism which impacts the customer. Common mechanisms today (everything from basic Starforce/Securom/etc... all the way to the Spore/Mass Effect disasters) can potential cause the customer extreme problems on their systems, with (potentially) long lasting effects that have no relation to the game itself.

On the other hand Impulse is simply a download manager/online store wrapped into one tool. And it isn't even required to fit with the "Gamer's Bill of Rights" as Venym was so keen to toss out. You may be required to use it for pre-releases patches and maybe for future mini-expansions to the game, but it isn't not required to obtain, play, and patch the game (with release patch versions, at least that is the last word I heard on the subject). Impulse is a DRM tool only in the classical sense, it does not fit in with the current general opinion of what a DRM tool is.

P.S. For the record, I do want to point out that you can't say you're Anti-DRM and be for Impulse because, as I mentioned, Impulse is a form of DRM enforcement. Feel free to say you're Anti-(Insert your hated DRM tool/function), but don't join the ranks of the idiots who defeat their own argument by mis-using the english language and/or terms associated with the subject of the argument.

Reply #14 September 15, 2008 6:13 AM from

Sins Forums Top

I guess Stardocks buiness plan was right to begin with, profit comes with trusting your consumer.

Reply #15 September 15, 2008 6:58 AM from

Sins Forums Top

but it isn't not required to obtain, play, and patch the game (with release patch versions, at least that is the last word I heard on the subject).

End of quote

It is for all future patches, beta or not.

Reply #16 September 15, 2008 10:16 AM from

Stardock Forums Top

Quoting bbtestbob, reply 15

but it isn't not required to obtain, play, and patch the game (with release patch versions, at least that is the last word I heard on the subject).

It is for all future patches, beta or not.

End of bbtestbob's quote

yep, but its better than the alternatives offered by other publishers. in the end its your choice if you want to patch or not.

Reply #17 September 15, 2008 11:12 AM from

Sins Forums Top

good, good. cheered at the news of sins reaching 500k. I wonder how well spore will do considering the chunk of fairly negative press, but probably there will be enough hype-blended ppl who bought it without even knowing about the drm crap. heh, I still wait for the media companies to limit the amount of times you can view a dvd or listen to a song.

Reply #18 September 15, 2008 11:26 AM from

Sins Forums Top

or listen to a song

End of quote

Funny story about that. There was a digital download store for music that will remain unnamed (*cough*Yahoo*cough*) that decided to close up shop. Funnily enough, this also meant that they would be taking the authentication servers down, and people who bought music from that store would no longer be able to listen to it afterwards.

Check it out: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080724-drm-still-sucks-yahoo-music-going-dark-taking-keys-with-it.html

Reply #19 September 15, 2008 12:27 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 18

or listen to a song
Funny story about that. There was a digital download store for music that will remain unnamed (*cough*Yahoo*cough*) that decided to close up shop. Funnily enough, this also meant that they would be taking the authentication servers down, and people who bought music from that store would no longer be able to listen to it afterwards.

Check it out: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080724-drm-still-sucks-yahoo-music-going-dark-taking-keys-with-it.html

End of Annatar11's quote

ouch, now that really sucks. hadnt heard about it, thx for the info.

well, at least EA will keep its hands off of another decent dev from what I read today. well, maybe we'll see gta or civ V on impulse some day .

Reply #20 September 15, 2008 2:41 PM from

Sins Forums Top

Spore is not as bad as that. People are just useing it to attack EA.

Reply #21 September 15, 2008 9:28 PM from

Stardock Forums Top

You're right. Spore itself is fine. It's EA's methods associated with DRM and SecuROM and how long they've been mistreating their customers. It's all been culminating to the bursting point, which is obviously now.

Reply #22 September 19, 2008 7:12 AM from

Sins Forums Top

Quoting Sir, reply 20

Spore is not as bad as that. People are just useing it to attack EA.

End of Sir's quote

The problem with spore's copy protection, specifically, is it limits the number of computers it can be installed on. Say I have a dual boot on my computer. At some point, I upgrade my hard drive. Depending on how EA reads my hardware, that could be 4 installs right there (2x2, and yes, previous software with this kind of DRM often mistakes multiple OSes or upgrades of a single component for a new system install). Spore allows 3, so I would have to call EA and beg them for an extra install, even though I am using it on one computer, ever. Also, I have checked. EA links related to games it owns from more than about 3 years ago are not currently upkept. This means unless EA changes it's policy, if you go to install spore 3 years from now, it will not likely work.

Compare this to our friends at StarDock.

I want to get Sins. I buy the CD in the store, I install it. My net connection is down? Who cares? It installs, it works, it does not install anything that stays in the system when it is not running. If I want to put it on my other 6 computers because I multibox and am like that... I put in the CD and install them. Updates are a little trickier. The updates are integrated, so there ARE restrictions on downloading them. You need your CD key, and if the StarDock staff sees 13,536 computers are using your CD key, it will be disabled. If 5 computers are using the same key AT THE SAME TIME, StarDock MAY send you an e-mail to ask why. Worst thing that can happen is you won't be able to get extra content/upgrades.

What happens if (and I sincerely hope this does not happen) StarDock goes bankrupt, gets bought by, say, EA, or for other reasons is unable to maintain the upgrade server? They put patch files on the net before they shut down the server and everyone can still use their software just fine.

The ONLY DRM is a noninvasive serial number check for upgrades, and your IP address (and maybe MAC address) being logged. There is likely no automatic lockout or presumption of guilt. Massive numbers (like 100 or 1000+) of people trying to use the same serial over a short period of time would result in it being looked into further, most likely.

Note:people do not torrent in a void. If you put your serial number in a torrent, stardock can very likely find it and having found it, disable the serial #.