Well stated.  I try to avoid games that violate some of these statements so I hope publishers that conform to them get better sales, but so far, it's only Stardock.  I've been screwed by #1 a couple times, that's a biggie for me.

GD this site is slow as hell lately. This page is STILL loading after I finished typing all of this. It's trying to download a ton of little images.  It's really stupid design.  And once I hit stop to kill the wait and scores of images DID finally show up, my post got reformatted and obliterated and I had to reformat it.

How about we add the first amendment to this:  companies will use simple, effective, and commonly used forum software that doesn't suck instead of creating their own forum software that does suck.

Anyways

I like it except maybe #3, because I even though I like getting free extas after the fact I don't think you can count on it. I'd ammend it to say that although games SHOULD be finished and relatively bug free at release, that players should be able to expect games to be patched to completion and have bugs fixed after release (since this doesn't always happen).

#7 is somewhat unrealistic too. Some companies can't even maintain a simple website for themselves - expecting them to facilitate or pay someone else to facilitate multi gig downloads is unreasonable.

Unfortunately, the big companies that could pull off most of this don't care to - especially the parts about treating paying customers like criminals. Smaller companies have little hope of doing most of it unless they're already mostly doing digital distro.

Well, it's nice to see that StarDock's marketing people are out in full force. It's not all marketing drivel, but there's far more of that than necessary.

You... you're kidding, right? Considering the state of GalCiv2's initial release, you guys have some nerve. But I guess it's easier to tell others what to do than to do it yourselves...

Then again, I notice that it is "have the right to demand...", not that "Gamers shall have the right to expect..." So yes, you can ask for things, but don't get your hopes up

Um, why? If the game was perfect to begin with, what would we need with "meaningful updates?"

Are filmmakers expected to provide "meaningful updates" to their movies? Are musicians expected to provide "meaningful updates" to their songs?

The very concept that game developers should have to keep providing content for a game is errant nonsense. I mean, it's fine if they want, but they shouldn't have to, nor should gamers expect them to (unless the developer said they would and reneged).

Nope. Doing that doesn't benefit StarDock, or needlessly take a swing at the competition, therefore it doesn't go in the bill of rights.

How about some real rights? Like:

- Gamers have the right to a UI and colorscheme that colorblind people can still play effectively.

- Gamers have the right to closed-captioning: that is, anything that delivers an audio cue must also have a visual cue or some form of text.

Things that will actually improve the player experience.

Maybe you could add a #11: Gamers shall not be forced to configure their routers to play an online game!

Now, THAT's what i call innovative customer support.

7a... Piece-of-mind; steady & fullproof operation of bought software is much more than things such as archives, backups and original CDs - it means that the distributor is protecting someone's investment by allowing the product to be *continually* available & in *solid* condition under whatever tragic circumstances enforced to a PC into total chaos even if by accidental events (Virus, flawed OS, etc).

8a... Thieves should be punished by Justice, that's a social responsability. Honesty is something precious and exactly where_how most people claim to own any software - legally. The distinction stands in the wording of **potential** which, in fact, is a form of trust. A reasonable and intelligent way of thinking. If this world is to become fair to all - something certainly HAS to be done in that direction.

I'm quite impressed by the formula; A Bill of Rights for gamers might feel like a joke (to some) but when you seriously try to foresee some of the consequences of such principle(s) - you can only conclude that products quality is mostly above & beyond any profit. I truly respect that in others.

I could issue some analogy to better illustrate; MS "Genuine Advantage" gimmicks!

Kudos for having the guts, Stardock!

This is pretty ironic to me because a Stardock game was the only game I haven't been able to play right "out of the box" so to speak due entirely to DRM, and ignorance about Stardock's DRM policies on my part. I bought Gal Civ 2 the gold edition a while back, and while I was on an extended trip I noticed that the expansion pack Twilight of the Arnor just came out, great! And it is a digital download, awesome, I can kill a long weekend with it! Right? Wrong. Turns out I couldn't install it because I'd never registered my original games with Stardock Central, although I tried, it was a confusing process that I never quite got through. And I didn't have the original numbers with me to register them right then since I was away from home. Even though I already had the full game and the first expansion installed on my computer, I couldn't install the expansion because I hadn't completed an optional step in the installation process. Basically, I was a legitimate customer stuck with a worthless pile of bits because Stardock was trying to prevent piracy, and I had no recourse that would allow me to play the game that I bought. Very not good.

The good news is Stardock customer service was really great and provided helpful replies explaining the policy, how it worked, and giving me a full refund when I asked for it. So I left pretty happy and I know for sure this company is dedicated to its customers. They're really great despite my complaints. But still, they could go a ways towards living up to their own goals. Even now I've been too busy to go searching for the original CDs so I can buy the expansion, the moment has passed, and they lost $30. For now at least, but I'll probably cave in eventually when I've got the time again. It sounds really fun!

You have to look at this from another perspective - the point about releasing games in a finished state, means you have to release a generally bug-free game that works as intended, e.g., a version 1.0, not a 0.7 beta renamed to final.

If that point is fulfilled, number three is NOT redundant. It does say updates, not bugfixes. An update should be regarded as a minor expansion, adding new, subtle things, that enrich the gaming experience, like a new race, or command, or tech branch. Thats when the numbers 1.1 etc have a meaning - It is a full 1.0 version, bug free, with the addons that the 1.1 update (Not Patch, mind this) introduce.

Again, the third point does NOT cover Patches and bugfixes - it regards Updates, and there lies the core difference and reason why Numbers 2 and 3 are valid.

I agree with Alfonse on some parts.

However, a Bill of Rights for Gamers is certainly a positive step however many rights are in it. Firstly it acknowledges that we are people expecting something meaningful from a gaming company. Expectations and promises means certain rights for the consumers. One (read: gaming companies) cannot go about producing crud while they promised gold and then expect gamers to spend their money and be happy about it. What happens in other sectors? Electrical appliances: if it doesn't work, you return it. No questions asked! It's in the law even.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

One of the most important in my opinion. If this is followed, then almost everything else falls into place. A mutual trust is established and constructive criticism and support follows.

This is what Microsoft should have done for Games for Windows Logo. Not just stay at the bank of the river, but flow down it. Perhaps we should also staple this multiple times on the EA Headquarters....

Nice list, although I expect the precise meaning of #2 could be rather vague.

What does "finished" mean? Does that mean no more features will be added? Does that mean the game is playable? Does that mean you're reached the feature set you wanted in the original design docs?

Seriously - you can add practically an infinite number of features to any given software - look at Microsoft Word, it got bloated so much they had to rethink and totally overhaul the UI.

I totally agree with everything else . I like that list.

For one thing, no game is perfect, so I expect at least bug fixes in the future.

For another thing, there are lots of games I love from the 95/98 and even Windows 3.11 era that were great games, but I can't play them anymore due to incompatibilities with modern OSes.

Even the occasional genre is forgotten: Anybody remember Descent, Hellbender, Fury, or Terminal Velocity? An entire genre for which there is litte equivalent today. They were fun games - I don't see why companies lost interest in making them.

I am glad others have noted the irony of this:

In my mind none of the GC2 games are finished.  They all crash, they all have plenty of small stupid bugs, and overall they all lack polish.   If Brad actually believed number 2, he would have put resources into cleaning these games up before releasing them.   (or at least really play tested them to realize he had problems)

The tragedy is that even in a non-complete state, GC2 is good.  It's good enough that you ignore the obvious flaws.  What gets me, is how amazing a game it COULD have been if they had just polished it rather than adding and adding complexity and features. As long as SD is somewhat successfull we'll probably never seem them release "finished" games.

PS, I hate the excuse of "we gave you free updates".  It's total BS.  I would have gladly paid 2x as much for any of these games if they were solid.  You shouldn't HAVE to update your game to get it to approach what you though you paid for a year ago.  Go back and play any of the initial releases.  They're a joke in and of themselves.   

I had no issue at all with the registration process.  I can install all the game components and expansions without any serial number information or disks.  All I have to do is install SDC and it fetches all of my registration info after prompting for my email address and password.  SDC installs the components then activates the games.  I've done this several times for various reasons.  I know other people have had trouble registering GC2 so you were probably one of the unlucky ones, but I've never had an issue.  Creating the account was a trouble free process for me.  When I bought the GC2 expansions as well as Sins of a Solar Empire, the serial numbers were automatically added to my account and retreived by SDC.