Mumblefratz Mumblefratz

Please eliminate the Off Topic Forums from Recent Posts

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Please eliminate the Off Topic Forums from Recent Posts

from GalCiv2 Forums

About a year and a half ago we used to have quite a bit of fuss with religious and political threads. There was a fairly big push by Kryo which assumedly was at Stardock’s bequest to try and tone down these threads and the overall grief that they cause. There were requests to take such threads to Joe User and although nothing much really seemed to happen, gradually over time it seemed things quieted down.

Now suddenly, and apparently in conjunction with the restructuring of the forums, we seem to be inundated with this stuff all over again. Kryo mentioned that he wasn't even sure which site these topics are coming from.

People usually say that if you don't like it then just don't participate but that's not really a fair suggestion. These things sprout a life of their own and like a train wreck it can often be difficult to look away. I honestly and truly find most of these topics as offensive as pornography and simply wish to not have to be subjected to these threads.

This has been suggested many times before and for much the same reason as I'm repeating this suggestion now. All that would be necessary is for the Off Topic forum to be something that someone would have to explicitly select to view. When viewing https://forums.galciv2.com simply exclude the Off Topic forum from the Recent Posts lists unless that forum is selected.

I and many others like me come here to talk, and listen to others talk, about GC2. I don't mind if things like the Sins forums were mixed in with GC2, at least there is some relationship; however these religious and political threads are ridiculous. I certainly don't come here to listen to someone else's religious beliefs or to talk about what opinions or lack thereof I may hold on the subject. I couldn't care less about what someone thinks about intelligent design or any of that crap. I suggest that anyone that brings up such a subject is simply doing their best to cause grief. I'm disappointed that someone like TGE would even start such a thread, the only purpose of which is the basest level of trolling.

There is nothing good that can come from such threads only bad. So for the sake of what's left of these forums please just let's not have that stuff here.

37,056 views 61 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I do regret now that I started that thread. It seemed a good idea at the time, I did have the best intentions. I am sorry for whatever grief it may have caused.
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
BTW the people that suggest locking this thread are in essense agreeing with me that there is no place for religious or political threads in these forums. I have to assume that this agreement is unknowing (perhaps unwitting is more apt) since otherwise they seem to be in complete disagreement.
End of quote


Or perhaps causing such an argument in a thread about not wanting to partake in such arguments is ridiculous. It in fact rather illustrates the point as to why we can't just 'not read it'. It seems to follow us around.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The response is always "if it offends you just don't look at it". The problem with that argument is that on one hand there are all these people trying to stick their (unwanted) beliefs in my face and then on the other hand saying "If you don't like these threads, don't read them" as if that's a defense.
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How does locking threads based on your whiny religious ethical superiority differ from that in any way?

You said in your first post you find it as "offensive as pornography". Therefore that means that those that don't find pornography to be very offensive are morally inferior to you. So even in your crying, you managed to subject US to YOUR equally stupid views.

Playing the ethical / moral card to censor something just because you don't like it makes you just as bad, if not worse, than the offending material in the first place. You started this thread under a pretense of, perhaps, decluttering irrelevant stuff from the 'recent posts' lists. But it basically is just a cry that your thin skin and utter lack of a spine make you easy to bruise because you made a good or bad choice in your life.

Furthermore, you're complaining about what the thread turned into. I look through the thread, and 99% of the 'problems' with the thread were stupid responses to equally stupid posts. I'm not going to bring it up in here, but I'll just use an example from that thread itself - someone who has an extremely immature and inferior understanding of science and evolution posts their 'irrefutable' proof that evolution is wrong, even though it's based on laughable concepts. They get ridiculed for posting that, and I see no reason why that should be any different from posting something stupid in any thread on any other topic.

Just because it's "religious" doesn't mean you can't be wrong, or you have a right to NOT be offended. You said 'nothing good can come of them'. Well guess what, that goes for about 99% of the threads on ANY forum, including this one. Did you think we were all going to stand up, wave our Bibles around, and proclaim that Jesus our Lord and Saviour has no place in as unholy a place as a forum? No, all you did was play the 'lol religion' card to get your way, and upset a lot of people. I hope you're happy.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It in fact rather illustrates the point as to why we can't just 'not read it'.
End of quote

We seem to be stuck in some Mony Python skit having to do with whether we came here for an argument or abuse.

Again you seem to be agreeing with my point that to "just not read it" is not a legitimate defense for these threads existence, so therefore you must be agreeing with my premise that political and religious threads should not be on display.

As far as circular reasoning about causing an argument about having arguments, the only argument one could have is if you're disagreeing and suggesting that political and religious threads should be prominetly displayed. However since you seem to agree that it's not good to have arguments then we are in agreement.

you only wish to have arguments in threads with which you agree with the premise and there should be no argument in any thread with whose premise you don't agree. Clearly that is selective agreement and most would argue against selective agreement. Don't you agree?
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How does locking threads based on your whiny religious ethical superiority differ from that in any way?
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Another country heard from.

I have no "whiny religious ethical superiority" in fact I have a complete lack thereof.

My purpose in coming to these Galactic Civilizations II forums is because I play and enjoy Galactic Civilizations II. I don't come here to receive religious instruction nor to hear anyone's political beliefs.

What is it you come here for? It clearly isn't Galactic Civilizations II. It seems to me that you simply come here to troll and argue.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What is it you come here for? It clearly isn't Galactic Civilizations II. It seems to me that you simply come here to troll and argue.
End of quote


Look pal, argueing is part of any forum these days. Stop looking at the past. By removing the off topic post from the recent posts window, a lot of people will be missing out on good news and debates. People also wont see my raps songs.

These kinds of posts get people mad. And this post has also gotten me a warning from Kryo about language use (anyone who was offended by the F word, I'm sorry.)

Kick this post off the whole frickin' forum.

Etrius
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I for one will miss the off topic threads. No, I did not read many - and the ones I did read were mostly to laugh at those participating. I am dismayed that Mumblefratz feels his lack of self control is reason enough to remove those topics from the recent posts list. "Don't read them" is a perfect reasonable defense; other users should not be penalized because a few cannot resist wandering into clearly marked topics they *know* will offend them.

Yes, I'm aware the option to view them is still available. The whole point of the recent posts list is to highlight active topics. I shouldn't have to dig through the forums to find the ones Mumblefratz doesn't approve of.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This has all been done before, about a year ago if I recall. And what Mumble is attempting to stop is what happened then where most of the recent posts list was filled with those types of threads, causing strive with quite a few longstanding members here. We just don't want to see this friendly and helpful community degraded to that of some other game forums. Freedom of speach really has little to do with it, it's about the community here.

If I want to read Pol/Rel. discussions, I'll pop over to Joeuser.com and check out posts by people who go there for that purpose and generally have a better grasp of their topic of choice, not just a bunch of biased afterthoughts by random gamers.
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I proposed a very simple thing. The title of the thread says everything about what I proposed. "Please eliminate the Off Topic Forums from Recent Posts".

There is extremely little to argue about. Anyone is free to agree or disagree with this simple proposal, beyond that what really is there to say?

Perhaps the problem is that there are numberable forums that have become morphed together and it's not totally clear to me what forum any one person was intending to visit.

I personally, and most of the people I know here, visit this site via https://forums.galciv2.com which says it all. From my point of view the purpose of this is to provide forums related to galciv2. If there are other groups interested in other things that get funnelled into the same box, I really have no issue with that. The only issue I have is when non galciv2 topics become a nuisance and interfere with the stated intent of these forums which is to provide a forum for the discussion for galciv2.

It is the stated policy of this site that political and religious threads should be held at JoeUser instead of here. There currently is a long standing thread specifically related to intelligent design there for those that truly wish to discuss that particular issue.

The thing is that the people that tend to object to the simple idea that the OTF be removed from the recent posts list are really not so interested in the topic of intelligent design per se but are simply far more interested in the confrontation that comes from such a topic.

It's not about losing a platform of rational discussion, it's about losing a platform for argument and abuse.

Basically the only argument here is people objecting to an attempt to eliminate argument for arguments sake. The only definition of folks that enjoy argument for arument's sake that I can think of is a troll. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yes, I'm aware the option to view them is still available. The whole point of the recent posts list is to highlight active topics. I shouldn't have to dig through the forums to find the ones Mumblefratz doesn't approve of.
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Nobody's said anything about that (hiding categories from the recent posts list) happening. In fact it can't presently and won't for the forseeable future happen. The recent posts list just shows everything, period, and the word is (as it was last time this request came up) that that's the way it's going to stay.

We can and will however enforce the standing policy against inflammatory topics and trolling. The *only* reason that topic got as far as it did is because there was some question about which sites shared that particular category after the recent reshuffling (particularly if the topics appeared on JoeUser, where near anything is fair game). However it appears to be shared only across the GalCiv2, Sins, and Demigod sites, and as such, the topic was dealt with.

Should any similar topics crop up, they'll also be dealt with appropriately. That's really all there is to it, so lets consider this settled, eh?
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The *only* reason that topic got as far as it did is because there was some question about which sites shared that particular category after the recent reshuffling ...

Should any similar topics crop up, they'll also be dealt with appropriately. That's really all there is to it, so lets consider this settled, eh?
End of quote

Fair enough.

[edit] Still I wonder, what was so inflammatory about this simple request? [/edit]
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was trying to hold back but i just have to speak. I was part of the crusade against the OTF last year along with Marshall ONeill and no matter how civil we tried to be and not to respond to inflammatory remarks, we ended up becoming part of the problem we hate, OT threads being on the recent post list.

Now that someone has had the courage to tackle the issue again, thankyou mumble, the flaming, over what is some people's misreading and interpretting the OP, looks to be starting again. Mumble, nor anyone else here, asked requested or demanded anything but the exclusion of the OTF from the recent post list. Of course there were those that don't bother to read the thread and make up their own meaning and start flaming in response.

And if i'm not mistaken i went through all this with you a year ago GeneralEtrius.

Look pal, argueing is part of any forum these days.
End of quote


Really? Must be the ones you go to. Funny that.......


By removing the off topic post from the recent posts window, a lot of people will be missing out on good news and debates.
End of quote


Relating to what? GC2? Or real world events and topics? If you think the removal of the OTF from the recent list will prevent people from hearing about real world events and news and then debating it you really need to climb out from under whatever rock it is you are living under and realize that this is a game site. People do not come here for the latest gossip or news. And if they do, then they are in the wrong place and should take their OT threads to Joeuser or somewhere similar. And all of the GC2 news is readily available without ever looking into the OTF.

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but this is a game site. Why should the debates and inane topics of the OTF take up the space intended for threads pertaining to the game we are here to enjoy.

How many interesting AAR's have never been read as they have been lost due to the OTF taking places in the recent list?
How many threads relating to the mechanics of the game have not had their importance felt because of a political debate from the OTF?

More importantly, how many new comers to GC2 and this forum have left the forums as all they could see on the recent list was religious and political threads. A new player comes to the forums looking for help or to become part of the community and is faced with political debate or why god is bad etc, etc, then leave convinced that there is nothing helpful to them on this site and conclude that the game is no longer worth their time.

Now that is a loss to the whole community and possibly a loss of a future customer to Stardock.

How may veterans of this site have already left because it seems that this forum cannot stay focused on its purpose and reason for being, Galactic Civilizations 2?

General, you want the OTF, fine. Go chat in that arena all you like. But your completely irrelevant (to this site and it's purpose) chat should not be cluttering up the recent lists prevent game related topics from being seen by the community.

Personally i'd love to see the OTF deleted all together. If you want to debate religion or politics, there are many other sites to do that on.

Why oh why these topics are allowed to clutter up and degrade a fine GAME SITE is beyond me. Isn't that what Joeuser is for?
:NOTSURE:
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I guess I should apologize to newer folks for having assumed everyone knew this was a Round 2 sort of thing. And I should say clearly that I have no strong opinion either way about whether OT threads show on the GC2 home page (other than my growing aversion to written rules mentioned above).

Any mess I've encouraged here is because I really do think OT should be Seriously Open.
Reply #39 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well Kryo has spoken and that really should be enough for everyone. The OTF will remain on the recent posts list but there has been no policy change that makes threads that were previously deemed "too much" now acceptable. I do expect that things will go back to the bounds of acceptablity.

I saw no harm in making what I thought was a simple request even though a similar request was made and rejected a year ago. I still can't see how such a simple request could itself cause such grief. But in any case Kryo has spoken and that is enough for me.
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And if i'm not mistaken i went through all this with you a year ago GeneralEtrius.
End of quote


No, you didn't.

Really? Must be the ones you go to. Funny that.......
End of quote


Look, I look at ton of debate threads, and I only reply to a few. And, its usually not me who tips things over the edge. If you're still grieving over Wheel Of Fire, stop blubbering, man up, and stop being a jerk.

Etrius

Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
These kinds of posts get people mad. And this post has also gotten me a warning from Kryo about language use (anyone who was offended by the F word, I'm sorry.)

Kick this post off the whole frickin' forum.
End of quote


Look, I look at ton of debate threads, and I only reply to a few. And, its usually not me who tips things over the edge. If you're still grieving over Wheel Of Fire, stop blubbering, man up, and stop being a jerk.
End of quote

It's barely been a couple of hours and you're calling upstanding members of the community a jerk. I see how much weight you give Kryo's warning. Keep it up and you'll be joining Wheel soon enough.
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yes, I'm aware the option to view them is still available. The whole point of the recent posts list is to highlight active topics. I shouldn't have to dig through the forums to find the ones Mumblefratz doesn't approve of.Nobody's said anything about that (hiding categories from the recent posts list) happening. In fact it can't presently and won't for the forseeable future happen. The recent posts list just shows everything, period, and the word is (as it was last time this request came up) that that's the way it's going to stay.
End of quote


That's a shame though. I only check the front page for news, and I don't feel it's an unreasonable assumption that the "Recent Posts" box on galciv2.com should contain posts related to the game. It seemed like it always did, and now it's close to having no relevant posts at all.

I would suggest that if it's unreasonable for the owners of a forum to dig through it and weed out unrelated threads then it's also unreasonable for paying customers to have to dig through the forum just to find recent posts about the product they payed for.

If you ever do a major revamp, I'd strongly consider making recent posts only cover topics related to the front page. I honestly thought it worked that way up until now, since I never saw a topic out of the Beta Reports in there.
Reply #43 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It's barely been a couple of hours and you're calling upstanding members of the community a jerk. I see how much weight you give Kryo's warning. Keep it up and you'll be joining Wheel soon enough.
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Just because you and Neilo are "upstanding" members of the forum does not protect you from people expresseing their opinions of you. I find Neilo an arrogant jerk. I can say that because of the first ammendment, something you and Neilo are trying to water down by removing the Off Topic forum.

I support Kryo's decsion to keep the OTF going. 'Nuff said.

Etrius
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's a shame though. I only check the front page for news, and I don't feel it's an unreasonable assumption that the "Recent Posts" box on galciv2.com should contain posts related to the game. It seemed like it always did, and now it's close to having no relevant posts at all.
End of quote


The functionality hasn't changed any, the only difference is that a couple new categories (the OTF from Sins/Demigod and the Personal Computing category under it) have been added in.The biggest issue is probably that activity here has been tapering down, while those categories are shared with much more active sites. So the ratio is skewed a lot more than it used to be.
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
More importantly, how many new comers to GC2 and this forum have left the forums as all they could see on the recent list was religious and political threads.
End of quote


None? Seriously, what the hell kind of point is that?
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Just because you and Neilo are "upstanding" members of the forum does not protect you from people expresseing their opinions of you. I find Neilo an arrogant jerk. I can say that because of the first ammendment, something you and Neilo are trying to water down by removing the Off Topic forum.
End of quote

Since it appears we're in an opinion expressing mood cloaked behind our first amendment rights then I have to say that it’s my opinion that you are a detriment to this community.
Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I can say that because of the first ammendment,
End of quote



No, you can say that because Stardock chooses to allow you to do so. The first amendment protects you from Congress impinging on your right to free expression, no one else.
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually there is a reasonable solution already available for anyone that does not wish to view any of the OTF forums.

Personally I never come to the site directly to the home page, I simply have a favorite linked to https://forums.galciv2.com/. This brings me to what I've always considered the root page of the forums. From there you see the major forum categories and their subforums. The major forum categories are GalCiv Dev Journals, GalCiv II, GalCiv II News, Impulse Beta and the now infamous Off Topic forums. The GalCiv II and Off Topic forums then have additional subforums under them.

The recent posts listed following this are from all of the above listed forums.

If you wish to exclude looking at any OTF threads you can instead setup a link directly to the Galciv II forum at https://forums.galciv2.com/forum/162.

In this case what's listed are Recent Active Posts from only the Galciv II forum. This is essentially what I was asking for to begin with.

The only real downside to this is that it excludes GalCiv Dev Journals and GalCiv II News which do contain useful Galciv2 information most notably pronouncements from Brad.

However if the choice I have is that in order to exclude threads from GeneralEtrius I must also exclude threads from Brad then that is a choice I am totally willing to accept.

So that is what I will do and what I encourage all real GalCiv2 fans to do is to simply link to https://forums.galciv2.com/forum/162 for all your GalCiv2 needs.

That way instead of being annoyed by all the drivel we can view only that for which we come here for. And if some topic that is really Off-topic (like this one) strays into the Galciv II forum then I would assume it would be far less onerous from a 1st amendment perspective to simply ask Kryo to move an offending thread to the Off Topic forum than it would be to have to wait until the thread becomes annoying enough to the bulk of the community to warrant being locked.

Anyway as I said all *true* Galciv2 fans should simply bookmark and use https://forums.galciv2.com/forum/162 and say goodbye to GeneralEtrius and his ilk.
Reply #49 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is the GalCiv II site and as such it is only reasonable to only include topics related to GalCiv II on the "recent topics" list. Everyone interested in the off-topic content will go there anyway.

And while we're at it: The "recent topics" list on totalgaming.net hasn't been updated at all for a loooong time. You should take a look at that.
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually it turns out that using https://forums.galciv2.com/forum/162 is not an acceptable solution since it only lists posts from the General subforum under the Galciv II forum and doesn't list threads posted under other subforums, most notably the Metaverse subforum.