Please eliminate the Off Topic Forums from Recent Posts

from GalCiv2 Forums

About a year and a half ago we used to have quite a bit of fuss with religious and political threads. There was a fairly big push by Kryo which assumedly was at Stardock’s bequest to try and tone down these threads and the overall grief that they cause. There were requests to take such threads to Joe User and although nothing much really seemed to happen, gradually over time it seemed things quieted down.

Now suddenly, and apparently in conjunction with the restructuring of the forums, we seem to be inundated with this stuff all over again. Kryo mentioned that he wasn't even sure which site these topics are coming from.

People usually say that if you don't like it then just don't participate but that's not really a fair suggestion. These things sprout a life of their own and like a train wreck it can often be difficult to look away. I honestly and truly find most of these topics as offensive as pornography and simply wish to not have to be subjected to these threads.

This has been suggested many times before and for much the same reason as I'm repeating this suggestion now. All that would be necessary is for the Off Topic forum to be something that someone would have to explicitly select to view. When viewing https://forums.galciv2.com simply exclude the Off Topic forum from the Recent Posts lists unless that forum is selected.

I and many others like me come here to talk, and listen to others talk, about GC2. I don't mind if things like the Sins forums were mixed in with GC2, at least there is some relationship; however these religious and political threads are ridiculous. I certainly don't come here to listen to someone else's religious beliefs or to talk about what opinions or lack thereof I may hold on the subject. I couldn't care less about what someone thinks about intelligent design or any of that crap. I suggest that anyone that brings up such a subject is simply doing their best to cause grief. I'm disappointed that someone like TGE would even start such a thread, the only purpose of which is the basest level of trolling.

There is nothing good that can come from such threads only bad. So for the sake of what's left of these forums please just let's not have that stuff here.

37,053 views 61 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Dude, it's ****ing freedom of expression. People can say what they want. If this group of threads is eliminated, things won't be as intersting. If you don't like these threads, don't read them. 'Nuff said.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I did some digging and the overall OTF category itself seems to be only on the games sites. As such I've moved the old sticky from the GC2 OTF to this one and put the standing policy into force on the thread in question.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
People can say what they want.
End of quote


Websites are private property. You're free to say what you want, but we can still decide if you can say it *here*. We try to be hands off, but there are times when the damage certain arguments can do to the community outweighs any benefit to allowing them.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@Kryo - I saw that you locked the most offending thread there and wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is a much better response than eliminating the other off topic discussions that might be of interest.

Well done.

@GeneralEtrius - The right to free speech, or freedom of expression as you call it, is limited to government and publicly owned forums. Even on those forums, the right is limited. It simply doesn't apply here.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thank you kryo. None too soon.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
ALTHO I fell we should have freedom to expression our self!!
we should consider that there are very young members that do not need to be subjected to some of the worst topics!!
Yes do not eliminate them but limit the way we see them knowing that the forum is there we can chose to go look at what has been said and then chose to be upset if it strikes us wrong.

The thing is,... not every ones tolerance the same so what Mumble object to might be alright to me or tolerable to kryo. so keeping that in mind and having common respect for every one,. would go a long ways,... but I understand that there are those whom would rather start a hostile topic then get along!!!

Nasty
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@GeneralEtrius - The right to free speech, or freedom of expression as you call it, is limited to government and publicly owned forums. Even on those forums, the right is limited. It simply doesn't apply here.
End of quote


It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still ****ing exist in the real world, and in cyberspace! :(
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still fucking exist in the real world, and in cyberspace!
End of quote
Actually . . many rights are removed in the context of a private business . . like this forum  . . or your house.

In any case, it's a good thing to remember the intended as well as the possible audience and moderate your topics and replies accordingly.  :)

Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@GeneralEtrius - The right to free speech, or freedom of expression as you call it, is limited to government and publicly owned forums. Even on those forums, the right is limited. It simply doesn't apply here.It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still fucking exist in the real world, and in cyberspace!  
End of quote


Actually, you signed a contract when joining this site that you would abide by their rules.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thank you kyro
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Dude, it's ****ing freedom of expression. People can say what they want. If this group of threads is eliminated, things won't be as intersting. If you don't like these threads, don't read them. 'Nuff said.
End of quote


It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still ****ing exist in the real world, and in cyberspace!
End of quote



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...

It demands food...
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"I'm disappointed that someone like TGE would even start such a thread, the only purpose of which is the basest level of trolling."

To be fair, he is 16.

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Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"I'm disappointed that someone like TGE would even start such a thread, the only purpose of which is the basest level of trolling."

To be fair, he is 16.
End of quote

I'm very familiar with TGE and consider him to be both a friend and in general wise beyond his years.

I *was* however disappointed that he started such a thread even though there was nothing offensive per se about his OP and he even requested that the thread remain civil.

The thing is that it should be very clear that such a topic could not remain civil as was evidenced by the thread's content and the eventual result. Also as Kryo mentioned when locking that particular thread, the topic starter's request to lock the thread was part of the consideration, so it's clear that he did come to regret bringing up the topic.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@GeneralEtrius - The right to free speech, or freedom of expression as you call it, is limited to government and publicly owned forums. Even on those forums, the right is limited. It simply doesn't apply here.It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still ****ing exist in the real world, and in cyberspace!
End of quote


http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/print_friendly.html?page=bill_of_rights_transcript_content.html&title=The%20Bill%20of%20Rights%3A%20A%20Transcription

Read it.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Dude, it's ****ing freedom of expression. People can say what they want. If this group of threads is eliminated, things won't be as intersting. If you don't like these threads, don't read them. 'Nuff said.
End of quote


GeneralEtrius:

All Mumble was asking was to remove the off topic discussions from appearing in the recent topic list. Try reading what he said next time, Grendel. He wasnt squelching anyone's freedoms. No need to channel the energies of Martin Luther the King and Thomas Jefferson to explain our civil liberties to us. Just let them rest!

It's still the U.S., dude. Rights cant be taken away even on private websites. They still ****ing exist in the real world, and in cyberspace!
End of quote


This whole "internet thing" we talk on is global now, too! Al Gore decided to share it with the rest of the world, so its not just the U.S. anymore.

Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Websites are private property. You're free to say what you want, but we can still decide if you can say it *here*.
End of quote


This is true. I'm not a lawyer, but I did teach civics for a few years and am not surprised to see some folks assuming their free speech rights are near absolute. We in the US have the freest speech in the world, AFAIK, but there are still limits even in public:

* You can't say or do things that cause immediate risk of harm (e.g. inciting a riot)
* You can't libel or slander another person (lie about them to harm them)
* You can't offend "community standards" with coarse language, inappropriate (insufficient) dress, or sex acts (no "obscenity")
* You can't advocate the violent overthow of our gov't

I personally believe that the best solution to speech that offends you is more and better speech. But no one posting here should be under any delusion that Stardock does not have complete legal ownership of everything going on at galciv2.com.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I personally believe that the best solution to speech that offends you is more and better speech.
End of quote

While I agree with this on the face of it there is a huge underlying assumption required to make this a reasonable statement. If the assumption isn't satisfied, as it often isn't, then responding with "more and better" speech as you say only falls into the trap of the unwary.

Basically this assumes that both parties are actually interested in rational discourse and have open minds that are willing to accept reasonable argument.

The problem is that this is not the case. There are many examples of this. Take something totally ludicrous like the arguments against legislation against smoking that were made by the tobacco industry.

This model has become the blueprint of all the crackpots on the internet including those that deny global warming and those in favor of intelligent design or any such crackpot religious or personal bias motivated issues.

The idea is that you don't have to make a reasonable argument, nor do you need any facts to back up your opinions, all you need are the bald faced statements by a few folks predisoposed to believe in whatever crackpot scheme under discussion. They can then point to the resulting "discussion" and claim that the results are contested and there is a differing range of opinion when in reality there is no legitimate discussion nor any credible support for their crackpot scheme.

Logic and reason doesn't work because the proponents of such schemes have neither. In this case all your more and better speech does is add fuel to their fire.

This is why I have always been against political and religious threads because there is no good that can ever come of it. You aren't going to change the mind of someone who is diametrically opposed to your view.

I have no desire in general to convince anyone that they should share my particular political or religious beliefs, I just also have no wish to be exposed to people that feel they have the right to spout their drivel at me.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
....people that feel they have the right to spout their drivel at me.
End of quote


Speaking of spouting drivel...........

all the crackpots on the internet including those that deny global warming ...
End of quote
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Hey, I tried to resist, but you set yourself up.





Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While I'm, at it:

Why doesn't someone lock this thread? It's just as bad as the other one, and the issue could have, and should have, been handled with a pm to the Moderators.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
....people that feel they have the right to spout their drivel at me.
End of quote

Speaking of spouting drivel...........

all the crackpots on the internet including those that deny global warming ...
End of quote

...........

Hey, I tried to resist, but you set yourself up.
End of quote

A perfect example of a lack of logic and reason. ;p
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why doesn't someone lock this thread? It's just as bad as the other one, and the issue could have, and should have, been handled with a pm to the Moderators
End of quote


That would be a violation of my rights per the 18th Amendment.  :HOT: 


And if you know what the 18th Amendment is, then you should have no problem with the 21st Amendment.

If you have no idea what either Amendment is, AND you are an American, go look them up. They deal strictly with "Internet Usage and Rights of the User"
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Mumble, your recent replies, and Piznit's, remind me why I really like the "unbridled" off topic area around here, and why I've always balked when people start whinging about the vomitrocious threads. In an effort at local citizenship, I will *not* start a faux civics class thread, but it is a tempting notion.

The greatest value I get out of this site is GC2-related, but I also really appreciate being able to get a sense of the pop culture, literary, religious, and political interests of folks who are also interested in the game.

Sure, sometimes it really, really ain't pretty, and I definitely ignore some popular threads, but I remain convinced that if a game is about *galactic empires*, then there's pretty much no subject that should be banned outright. That's a really sweeping scale, and zooming in to the details level now and then is good for us mega-map players.

In practical terms, I'm happy with ad-hoc policing by the masses and/or Kryo. We in the US have become entirely too fond of legislation.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why doesn't someone lock this thread? It's just as bad as the other one, and the issue could have, and should have, been handled with a pm to the Moderators.
End of quote


I second this motion. Please lock this thread.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sure, sometimes it really, really ain't pretty, and I definitely ignore some popular threads, but I remain convinced that if a game is about *galactic empires*, then there's pretty much no subject that should be banned outright.
End of quote

"I definitely ignore some popular threads" is the crux of the issue.

The response is always "if it offends you just don't look at it". The problem with that argument is that on one hand there are all these people trying to stick their (unwanted) beliefs in my face and then on the other hand saying "If you don't like these threads, don't read them" as if that's a defense.

If you can simply ignore them then more power to you. 99 times out of 100 I also try to stay out of these stupid discussions, however every so often, something is so stupid and outrageous that you get sucked in.

My analogy to porn is very apt. You can also say if you don't like porn then don't buy it, however here the porn is on display just as if it were prominently displayed in a storefront window across the street from the elementary school.

All I'm asking is to take the Off Topic Forum out of the recent posts lists. That's the same thing as asking the shopkeeper to take the porn out of the front window and put it under the counter. Everybody knows where it is if they wish to partake but no one is forced to view the centerfold while simply walking down the street enjoying a nice day.

Then OldFartAtPlay comes along and quotes a snippet or two from a post and responds with a cryptic comment as if he just disproved String Theory. I see no logic behind his comments but perhaps his reasoning is explained by a sequence of a dozen or so periods (ellipsis?).
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
BTW the people that suggest locking this thread are in essense agreeing with me that there is no place for religious or political threads in these forums. I have to assume that this agreement is unknowing (perhaps unwitting is more apt) since otherwise they seem to be in complete disagreement.