Of course. You may not actually be in the fifth grade, but your mentality/maturity is definately at that level.



That is a red flag for a fool who wishes to stay ignorant. You're basically saying, "decimals are too complicated. Me no understand".

I take back what I said about you being a fifth grader. Fifth graders at least have a fair grasp of decimals. There's no need to insult the fifth graders.

Pull your fingers out of your damn ears.

I guess you just don't get the hint. I dont care about your decimals. Go make your own chart, or go harass someone else. I'm getting tired of your harassment.

I will update the siege frigate figures (from patch) when I get home tonight. Still at work

Okay. The info on the chart has been updated to reflect the latest changes made in patch 1.03

Great assist. Thanks.

Frogboy, could you please unstick this topic?

The problem is that while the data provided is nice and simple, it is plain wrong. I'd also recomment updating ingame damage display with decimals but that is a design choice. At least on the forums the exact damage values should be dominant. Yes, I realize that there is another sticky with the correct data but with this topic also sticky and in first place and with the more eye-catching name, most noobs won't even realize that the data provided is quite wrong. Kruelgor could fix that by posting a big red warning sign that the date is rounded at the top of his page but seeing his attitude so far, I doubt he will do it.

In general, making this topic sticky has a few other negative consequences.
Do you remember the "Disciples beat LRM" topic Kruelgors? Or the "mods are bad, don't talk about them, the devs hate mods" stuff he posted? He is spreading wrong information for quite some time now and in giving him a sticky topic, you directly say that he is credible - which, as shown by the reaction of the rest of the community in those topics as well as in this one, is a big mistake.

It already says that. It says "AVG" short for average, just like it says in the game.

That's not a bad idea, however. I will post a link on my website to the detailed decimal version when I get home tonight.

Thanks for the idea. Take care!

An option inside the Interface Display settings labeled "Display Decimal Values" would quickly correct that issue. Not to mention allow flexibility. Personally, Decimals in game would be heavenly as I'm quite sensitive to Damage Values. You can blame MMOs for that.

That would be nice. If the developers displayed such information in the game then I would gladly update my chart. I'm not going to get decimal data from a 3rd party website, however. My information comes directly from the game display.

But the damage you list is NOT average damage. Average damage of 5 means that it sometimes does 4, sometimes 6 and it averages to 5.
This is NOT how the game works. The damage displayed in the game is NOT average damage, it is ROUNDED damage. Big difference Especially for strike craft.

In addition to that, the plain damage really doesn't mean anything. Damage type and armor type are far more important and you are not listing these.
Yes, they are not available as ingame info - but they still are real, check the games config files.
Pure damage tables are worth nothing and only mislead noobs in thinking wrong stuff without taking the damage / armor types into consideration.

I already sent a message to Frogboy asking to unsticky this topic. I also asked to sticky the other chart. He was nice enough to sticky the other one but didn't unsticky this one. I guess he didn't want to hurt [MAGOG]Kruelgor's feelings.

There was really a time were THIS topic was the only sticky one and the good one with the real data was not sticky? I am losing my faith in Frogboy / Stardock here ...

yes and it was a day after I already mentioned how the data is incorrect, I had to bring it up again when he made it a sticky.

From what I've seen, they're completely hands off on the strategy section. They post very rarely here and so far, it's mainly been to sticky something. They're much more involved in the general section.

Oh, by the way Kruelgor. As a web designer I can't help but point out your color combination chosen is borderline blinding, It's quite strenuous on the eyes.

Might I suggest taking a look at the various combinations of colors from this site. They all have they Hex Values noted so you can quickly substitute them for your existing values. I'm sure you can find something suitable to your liking that will make it easier to look at.

*Tips hat

HolloW

Thanks for your feeback HolloWatcher. I throw your comments into the bucket with all your other degrading comments from other threads.

Cheers!

The same old people keep on with their attacks. It doesn't matter what I say, where I say it, these "I guess you call them trolls" follow me in every topic I go and they always have a degrading comment. I think it's pretty hilarious. Maybe that's why your suggestions are getting ignored, since you obviously have some other kind of agenda behind your tainted requests.

HolloWatcher
JinxOfSin
archpsi
there's a few others (same old people everytime)....

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure you guys out. You're just a handful of messageboard bullies, and now you're trying to bully Frogboy to pull down my chart. Thugs will be thugs. The world wouldn't be same without your kind. Have fun. Continue on... No one cares.

I'm here to stay.

Cheers!

Okay, I have added a link on my website chart for the decimal version. That was a good idea for whoever suggested that. Thanks.

Kruelgor: The problem is that you respond to very justified criticism with arrogance and name-calling (yes, YOU started it, not the others). This topic here is quite a harmless one but the Disciple vs LRM topic is a good example for it. It's not about bullying. The thing simply is that you tell people wrong stuff and then refuse to listen to reason and say you are right when you are not. There are exactly two possibilities:

1) You do it on purpose. You have fun watching people argue against you without any chance to achieve anything because you post the wrong stuff and the arrogant replies just to upset people. This is what I think you do and that's why I think making this topic sticky was a mistake (feeding the troll and so on).

2) You really believe what you are saying, you believe that you are right and you think that your arrogant way of presenting your "knowledge" is justified. That would actually be a lot worse and I'd have to question your intelligence then.

So much evidence has been provided against your claims in the Disciple topic and still you refused to accept said evidence, basically proving that you are either not able to understand basic logic or doing it on purpose.

edit1: That being said I'm very surprised that you seem to partly respond to criticism here. Admitting that the chart is not perfect is a good start and while the first replies were really bad (saying that others don't understand what averaging means etc) at least you seem to be not completely immune to reasoning. There may be hope yet
But the line you added there is not really enough. While it is a start, it has already been pointed out that the values there are NOT based on averaging. The game uses decimal numbers and just doesn't display them. The displayed values are NOT averaged, they are rounded. That's a HUGE difference, especially for low-damage ships.
In addition to that, a big red warning that you are using rounded values (NOT averaged) would be better then the very small barely readable comment.

edit2: Another thing. You are of cause in no way obligated to answer this but if I may ask, how old are you?

I wouldn't call correcting you and even showing you game mechanics that you are not aware of as an attack (other thread two replays to demonstrate it quite well).

Please show me my degrading comments? between us, you have implied that I dont understand averages and now you claim that I'm a bully.

I actually stopped posting in this thread before frog made it a sticky, since I understood that you wouldn't accept the other side of the argument. I was just amazed that frog made it a sticky, so I had to post again to inform people that its incorrect.

I believe there's a misunderstanding. No where have I made any degrading comments towards you, though if you can find one, feel free to call me out on it. What you quoted me on was constructive suggestion, I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds the colors hard to look at.

Oh well, different strokes I guess...

HolloW

Again, thanks for singling me out. Check my post history, I've made maybe 3-4 only one of which was directed to you as an inquiry to sate my curiosity.

HolloW

WTB forum mod that hasn't had his banhammer arm fall into muscle atrophy from lack of use.

And the fact that this actually got stickied, and still IS stickied is just well... mind boggling.

More constructive thoughts: The data on zyxils sheet is all either A) available from in game infocards or available from dev posts. However since you've blatantly ignored these facts in this, and other, threads I don't expect you'll be listening to it now. I also expect an updated list of people bashing you with my name included, even thought this is the first post I've made in one of your threads. The others I left alone because others had done a good enough job correcting you and I saw no need to add my two cents...

I've just one question, are you actually a third grader or are you mentally retarded? This is a serious inquiry and I would appreciate an answer.

All this bickering over a glorified spreadsheet? Sounds like the time Honduras and El Salvador had a war over a world cup game.

Seriously, people, the chart has its virtues. It's presented in a way that lets the average plebian n00b (me) easily compare differant ships. And, when it comes down to it, that's what the chart is doing...comparing all TEC, Advent, and Vasari ships. Providing an exact calculation of each ship's combat prowess is not its purpose.

However, OP, there are definately more mature ways of defending your chart than this outright refusal to see the points of your opponents. Trying to slam them as bullies or calling decimals 'useless' is just not good politics.

Just my two cents.

Kruelgor, if I were to have a thread of mine stickied, I would feel an extra responsibility to have the information up-to-date and accurate. I think the underlying problem some people have with your table is that it misrepresents a lot of numbers. The reason is that you leave out just enough information so that to a less-informed player your table contains disinformation.

Let me explain this from what would be the point of view of a newer player reading the strategy section and seeing this sticky. The first obvious error to me is that you have damages listed as average damages. Damages are not averaged by any meaning of the word. To a newer player, this might imply, for example, that damage in this game is handled like a dice roll (like in Warcraft III, where there is a possible range of damage). The damages listed in your table are rounded. In fact, not a single number on your chart is averaged (even though you have a note at the top saying that some numbers are averaged).

The next very important bit of information you leave out is arc damage. You list the separate arc damages on capital ships but don't say where they are. You do NOT list the separate arc damages of any other ship, and instead just add them all together. So a newer player might be very excited at the prospect of using Illuminators - all the time not knowing that he's only doing a third of your listed damage most of the time.

The most important thing you leave out is armor types and their effect on damage. If I was a newer player and saw this table, the first thing I would look at is the damage column. What do I see? A few flak frigates do as much damage as a capital ship. Not having the information or even a note saying that different damage types do different damage vs. different armor types is disinformation.

Having a tiny-text link at the top to a rigorously updated spreadsheet with far more information and more accurate information doesn't somehow change that the information on your table is wrong. Also, pointing at a mistake by the devs and saying that since they did it it's ok for you to do it is bad form.

Now, really, if you want the chart to be simpler and easier to digest, at least write a small paragraph explaining all the important items not listed. Your effort in making this table wasn't a waste, it's just that without all the important other information, it's misleading.

edit - By the way, I think your colors would look fine if you just used a bit darker red.