All-X and tech-trading

from GalCiv2 Forums
Hi, I've just returned to GalCiv after taking a long break. Got a new laptop now! So I apologise that my first post in a long time should be on what are probably the two most talked about things in GalCiv2. I just hope I'm not going over ground that has been covered repeatedly already.

I've been spending my time at work reading the forums and have since started an all-factory game and it does seem to work very nicely. I've been thinking about why this seems to be so successful, especially in the suicidal games described by Wyndstar, Purge and others.

A lot of it is obviously down to making the greatest use of your tiles with the somewhat strange way the sliders work. But this is only part of the equation - maximising your production ability is not the same as maximising your actual production, in GalCiv2. You need to pay for that production too.

From reading the AARs, and my own limited experience playing all-factories, tech-trading is essential. Without it is impossible to keep those sliders at maximum. With all labs in particular, your civilisation is set up like a software company. You use your initial "loan" of 5000 to go all out to be the first to several techs. Then you sell them to every other civilisation. While each civ is paying you less than it cost you to develop the tech, together you make a large profit. You can then use this profit to repeat the cycle, all the time diverting some of your profit into building up your empire.

While on "fair" levels, where the AI gets no bonuses, it might be equally valid to split econ and all-x, on suicidal it isn't worth it since the huge bonuses the AI get mean that they are far more efficient at raising money than you. By selling tech to them you are essentially redirecting their bonuses to yourself.

The problem, I think, is that the AIs don't evaluate the tech market properly. I know a lot of work has gone into trying to get them to trade more efficiently (and I know there is the no tech trades option, but it isn't much fun). But I don't think they properly consider that they can get the tech from elsewhere. Just because you are the first to offer the trade, doesn't mean they can't look and see who your competitors are. So when you are going through all the other civs selling your techs, i think each civ should look to see who else they can buy it off, and how much they want for the tech, and offer no more than that. So you are in competition with all the civs you have already sold to that round.
I believe this would greatly reduce the amount of money you could make selling techs and effectively limit the power of all-X on the higest levels, so that new strategies would be needed to provide the income for all those labs/factories. (It's possibly the AI already does this, I don't know how to find out. If it is the case this post is a big waste of time.)

I know there is a No tech trade option, and suicidal, all-X is seen as effective but not very fun strategy. I just think it would be good to make suicidal suicidal, even for the top players.
strategies
4,649 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For an all-factory strategy, I'm of the pursuasion that No Tech Trading is helpful, and it also reduces one of the more time consuming features of the game. Therefore, it is more fun for me. I "tech trade" by conquering nearby civs   

The economy is NOT a problem even if you cannot trade techs. It just means you need to be more efficient with the money you have. Money anomalies are nice, but you must play as if you'll never find any. In DA anyway they're kind of rare. Don't over-extend yourself during the planet rush, and don't overproduce in the early game while your population is growing, and you'll do just fine with your production at 100%.

I'm only playing obscene though, haven't moved to suicidal yet.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ah OK, from the AAR reports it sounded like trying to build your economy wasn't worth it. I think in Wyndstars one he didn't build any farms, economy buildings or morale improvements.

In my current game (only on Normal... I'm thrashing it, just learning the changes in DA)I have sort of cocked up my economy. Needed to either send more colonists from earth so my colonies grew quicker or cut my tax rate to get the same. I also probably over expanded a bit.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
From reading the AARs, and my own limited experience playing all-factories, tech-trading is essential. Without it is impossible to keep those sliders at maximum.
End of quote


i think you can do better with tech trading, but i do not believe it's essential even at suicidal. i'm quite ready to step up to masochistic myself. in my previous game, i played the thalans with an all-factory setup. i had tech trading disabled. my normal inclination would have been to spend points on population growth, but instead i spent it on military production. between the +50% from bonus points, +33% from the thalans innate ability, and +25% from the ASC, none of my factories ran at any less than 208% their normal production. i switched my production to 100% military early on, and focused my planets that had planet structures in the queue to social focus. everyone else was research focus.

the vast majority of my planets had: a starting colony, a starport, a farm, two factories (more if there was a +300% industry tile) and however many stock markets would fit. a few of my planets had 2 farms, and a few of my planets were all factories. most of them didn't need more than two factories, especially since i started with 2 PQ26 planets very near my HW and also took the colony rush because of my super hive abilities.

i managed a 5 year, 122K victory, and if i'd had the will to do it i could have probably played a 9-year game and had a better score. this was on a large, all abundant map--i don't think i have the attention span to play a gigantic all-ab. 200~300 planets is already a wear on my nerves.

my economy was strong by the end of the first game year, but don't get me wrong, it was way in the negative at first. i just made it a point to get a lot of surveyors out there.

how well this would work on suicidal is another question entirely, but after playing that game i'm more than ready for maso and might jump right to obscene.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think tech trading is a convenience and a benefit but not all that earth shattering if it's off. There are so many ways to play that there is always a way to compensate for a lack in one area.

I personally prefer an all economy approach. Not because it's more efficient because it's not, but because it's intrinsically a higher scoring strategy. It's also very tedious so it's not one that's suited for those that don't like to micromanage every detail of the game. However, with this approach I didn't bother building the Artifical Slave Center in my current game even though I'm playing evil because the period of time that I need to actually produce ships as opposed to buying them outright is pretty much over before I've researched Concepts of Malice.

Every strategy, whether all factory, all labs, all economy or even just an old fashoned mixed build of both research and production has it's time and place. Anyone that gets over enamored with any single one of these approaches is limiting themselves as a player.