What "cruisers suck" problem? They're awesome.

Yes they are; what he is reffering to is the fact that most cruisers are a support role; which carry the perception of being not powerful deadly ships of war like real life cruisers are.

The Kodiak is the only pure bred Combat Cruiser... the Light Carrier just isnt pure-bred but it is also a 'good' or rather 'combat oriented' cruiser.


At any rate... give me my destroyer and have it be bigger than cruisers. Its space the nomenclature can be different.

Or you could rename the current cruisers 'destroyers' and make the new ships we are discussing here 'cruisers'. Cruiser's are the next biggest thing after battleships/carriers in the navy, so it makes sense.

That is a solution, but I really just never cared for the naval nomenclature enough. It has always varied too much from era to era. The term 'Dreadnought' for example... oh my has that been confused.

Honestly I think most of the Support ships should still be called Frigates, the Kodiak should be called a Cruiser with the Light Carrier.

Notably for visual design something like a smaller Nostromo from Aliens the movie, would proabbly work well, it has a Kol-ish design fram, it would be thinner, and probably have the same design for the engine block.

though I wouldn't mind something like the Conquest Frontier Wars ship from their intro movie (was it called the andromeda?)

But to balance them, they should be less powerful.

i think two types of those new crusiers would be enought

The current 4 cruisers are:
- a heavier version of the light frigate
- a light carrier
- a repair ship (with an (imho) useless combat ability)
- a shield refiller (with an (imho) useless targeting ability)

How do you want to make them weaker? Remove the one squadron from the carrier? Degrade the heavy frigate to a light frigate? Remove the repair ability from the Hoshiko?



Two types of what? What kind of role should the fulfill? What should be their advantages, their disadvantages?

If you request a new type of ships, you have to define what their use should be, else I could also just request a new type of economic building and a new type of defense building, etc.



Imho the colony ship should be reclassified as a cruiser while the heavy frigate (the cruiser one) should be reclassified as a frigate.

I only know that IF we want to make them destroyer class ships then We need some space for true crusiers. Ther are only two options.
1.Make destroyers something weaker then they (crusiers) are now and add crusiers with similar power to those now existing in game.
2. Make capital ships more pawerful (current balance will be lost :/ ) and add crusiers with this same power as those now existing in game.

I don't know what special abilities should be added/changed.



What i wanted to say was that ther shouldn't be too much crusiers because they shouldn't have very much special abilities. In my opinion they should be primary offensive ships but they should need support of specialistic ships especialy when deealing with carriers. Type one crusier should be able to fight with some smaller ships (but not fighters/bombers), or (in gropup of 5-7) should be able to handle a offensive primary capital ship.
Second crusier should have some weapons able to destroy hard targets (not so good as first crusier) and soft ( bombers? ) as well. Sorry but i'm not good in creating details of ships.

Most important things is that crusiers should be a faster alternative for slow capital ships. Thanks to that you could fast split your forces if you need to do that.

Sorry for my horribly english... i'm in hurry and don't have time to look for dictionary

this is why in my original posts, I mentioned that I only wanted 1 New ship.... I wanted an odd ball ship called destroyer... now we have a discussion about a whole new class of ships...

Why are you people so stuck on the naval terms, different navies have had different terms you know.

Yes i know that it's strange, but i simply can't accept that destroyer will win over a crusier. Arghhhhh... for me this is important. For You isn't. Devs will decide.

I think every space game made to date that used naval classes for ships followed the naming convention, size wise (not necessarily role wise), which is probably why it would be really odd for a lot of people to see 'destroyer' overpowering a 'cruiser', even though destroyer sounds much more menacing

For the longest time I actually thought destroyer was a size higher than cruiser, too

Actually, I take that back, if I recall correctly Destroyers in Freespace/Freespace 2 overclassed Cruisers by a very very wide margin. Especially in FS2 with beams added.

I would prefer the following.

frigates stay the same.

Destroyers would be a combat orientated ship. It would basically be slightly larger than Cobalt frigates, but 2-3X more powerful (firepower & armor) and 2-3X more expensive.

Cruisers remain much the same.

Battlecruisers similar in size and cost to regular cruisers, but with more armor/hullpoints/firepower. However, they should be pure combat vessels and have NO special abilities.

Capital Ships should remain the same.

Cobalt Light Frigate:
MaxHullPoints 600.000000
MaxShieldPoints 350.000000
HullPointRestoreRate 1.000000
ShieldPointRestoreRate 1.000000
BaseArmorPoints 2.000000
9.5 dps

Kodiac Heavy Cruiser:
MaxHullPoints 1050.000000
MaxShieldPoints 600.000000
HullPointRestoreRate 1.500000
ShieldPointRestoreRate 2.000000
BaseArmorPoints 5.000000
18 dps

You already have a ship that's almost twice as powerful as a Cobalt.



"with more armor/hullpoints/firepower" than which cruiser? It should cost as much as which cruiser? Cruisers have pretty diverse cost and function, so a general statement like this doesn't tell much.



Why make them weaker? Just reclassify them (if you don't like them called cruisers), keep the Kodiac as a Cruiser and add a second type of direct fire fighting ship. How about an Ion Cruiser that does only shield damage?



Capital ships are already very powerful. I don't think they need much more power.

I just want ONE count em ONE ship between the Kodiak and the Capital Ship... I would prefer calling it a Destroyer... many space games have broken the nomenclature rules before... but whatever, we can call it the Battle Cruiser....

Just One...

A capital ship is already called Battle Cruiser.

Too late now



Ok. But not only shield domage. Little "hard" domage as well.

Yeah the Battle Cruiser invented for speed and guns but less armor... certainly the Akkan as the slowest capital ship fits this description!

This conversation is kind of funny

Hope it makes it in though, you can't ever have enough ships I always say.

If no other point makes it across this needs to be emphasised: there arent enough attack class frigates and cruisers. three, if you're lenient enough to call the LRMS fight worthy.

Define "attack" class cruisers.

Carriers attack via fighters, Kodiaks and cobalts attack directly, gardas have an ok -- not great, but ok -- punch with their anti-fighter weapons, and while siege frigates do suck as attack units, they and cielo's have weapons.

If you mean some form of "line" units, designed to engage the enemy -- and take his fire -- then yeah, only cobalts and kodiaks can do that. So what?

I agree... so what we only have 2. they are bad ass. just build alot of them and support them as you please. The TEC are cought off guard here remember. they dont have the resourses to disign all sorts of fancy ships. they take what they can get, use what works, and build alot of them. Youll get plenty of other ship types with the other races. balencing is really complex with a game of this scale. I aplaud the devs for the jobs their already doing!   

But if theres a wish list... it would be cool to see a (one) DISTORYERRRR!!! {said in a very deep evil voice}   

the point being we have two types of units, strong and weak. that hardly promotes battle diversity

every battle I've gone into I can completely wipe the floor with the enemy if they diversify while I stick with standard cobalts and/or kodiacs. so we have an issue of tactics.

oh yes, because thats all that matters.

come on, even pirates have cooler point defense ships, look a their shotgun-thingies!