Thoughts on a Reworked Espionage System

Or: When the Americans spied on the Russians, their U2 spy planes didn't have to sabotage a factory to take pictures.

The basic concept is to combine the spy systems from DL and DA, but with some enhancements. I know it's a bit complicated for GC 2, but it's an interesting thing to consider for future iterations of the series.

Basically, it goes like this:

1. Total Espionage budget is increased from 25% to about 30% for the reasons that will be extrapolated below.

2. The single Espionage slider is replaced by two sliders. The first sets the percentage of the budget spent on intelligence activities. The second determines what percent of that Espionage spending is devoted to Intelligence gathering, and what percentage is devoted to Agent Recruitment

Example:
Espionage
<-----------> 500bc
? <-----*-----> ! 250 bc Intelligence, 250 bc Recruitment

3. The single Espionage tab under Domestic controls is replaced by two tabs: Intelligence and Recruitment. Both tabs include "telemetry" of the Espionage sliders, so that the budget spending can also be changed on that screen.

4. Intelligence, or passive spying, works like the DL system. Money is spent on raising your Intelligence level on a certain civilization: at a certain amount of spending, your intelligence level goes up. You can also reduce the intelligence that foreign powers have on you by devoting part of your budget to Counterintelligence. Foreign powers can do the same to you as well.

5. Recruitment, or active spying, works like the DA system. Money is spent on recruiting agents who can then carry out several different missions. These missions can be chosen from the Domestic menu, or (for certain missions) from the screens indicated below.

-a. Defense: Agents not currently assigned to a mission are placed on defense. Defending agents provide a bonus to the civilization's Counterintelligence score and are required to neutralize or convert foreign agents.

-b. Sabotage: the current DA spy mission. Can only be chosen by clicking the "spy" tab on the galaxy map. Shuts down a building's production. When the mission begins, the target nation immediately knows what has happened and must "spend" a Defensive Agent to neutralize the saboteur. Requires at least Low level intel on the target nation.

-b. Steal Technology: Can be chosen from either the Recruitment screen or the Foreign Affairs screens. An agent is dispatched to steal a random technology from the target nation. When first assigned, the foreign power is not aware of the spy: the spy must first be identified before it can be neutralized. First, the civilization's Counterintelligence score gives it a chance every week to identify an agent trying to steal technology. Second, if the agent successfully steals a technology, it immediately becomes identified and can be neutralized.

(This system basically would tend towards a strategy of: place agent, wait until an agent steals a tech, recall them, then immediately reassign them, thus setting the counter back to zero. My suggestion is that an agent used to steal technology can't be recalled: imagine an American weapon's scientist being courted by the KGB. The moment he was identified, he became useless as an intelligence asset. Even if he had been rescued by Soviet agents and given a nice dacha near Moscow, he would have been useless for the purposes of stealing more technology from America.)

-c. Degrade Relations: Can be chosen from the Treaty screen, where it shows relations between the target nation and another one. Basically works by spreading disinformation and propaganda to cause relations between two nations to falter. Agents are identified using the average Counterintelligence score of both nations. The higher the relations between the two countries, the harder it is to degrade.

In addition, neutralizing an agent once Identified has more options than the standard DA system.

1. Wetwork: Calls up an "Engineer" to "Troubleshoot" the situation. Spend one agent, and the enemy agent disappears. Where did he go? Better you don't worry about that, sir, we'll take care of the dirty work.

2. Double Agent: Costs some money based on the spy nation's base Loyalty scorevs. your Influence. Through bribery and persuasion, you convince the agent that it can be more profitable to work with you instead. Provides a bonus to your espionage level on the target civilization. However, the downside is that the foreign agent must remain in place to keep his superiors from getting suspicious.

3. Defect: Costs even more money, also based on the spy nation's Loyalty vs your Influence. You buy off the enemy agent and convince them to work for you instead.

4. Diplomacy: Not exactly an Espionage option, but one you can use from the Diplomacy screen. You talk to the foreign leader and you ask them to remove their agents. Depending on how interested they are in keeping you happy, they'll do so or refuse. Some persuasion may be necessary.

. . . now that I think about it, this may be way too complicated. This is GalCiv, after all, not Spycraft. . .
5,780 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top
But that sounds super awesome. If they even implemented half that stuff it would be so much better. I definitely like the "degrade relations" idea. The Drath should have a bonus in that department as a super manipulator. I also would like to see that you could catch spies and figure out who they work for, based on their racial loyalty and your "techniques". Then decide what to do with them, eliminate them, bribe them, etc.
Reply #2 Top
Great idea!

I'd be very interested in such changes to the espionage system.
Reply #3 Top
same here. Espionage is too simplistic right now. Besides, its a little cheesey that everytime you place an agent, you see all buildings on a planet. Basically all you need is one spy to know where everything is in the enemey empire, and you never even have to actually place him.
Reply #4 Top
I have observed that civs commonly have relations that don't match, like the Arceans may feel Friendly towards the Drengin while the Drengin are Cool towards the Arceans. I mention this in regards to your "degrade relations" option. It would be a lot simpler and make more sense to have an agent only affect one civ's relations towards another, but the same agent wouldn't be able to do the same for the other civ at the same time. This would also mean that you only need to consider one civ's counter intelligence.

In the long run, I would like to see the simple "dump cash-get results" system scrapped, in favor of something like deploying spy probes or whatever in space; they would have a limited sensor range and would gather info on everything in that range. This, however, would be an improvement to the current system.
Reply #5 Top
It's time to think about the next expansion; other than all the bug issues that needs to be resolved at or before the expansion if there thinking about maiking one, we must think of improvements.

Allow more control over espionage

- When no espionage spending is needed, the AI sais from time to time we might get a breakthrough and steal technology. Well at this point, didn't we earn the right to target which tech to steal? In other words, we get the option to choose and target which tech to steal. I would imagine that some techs would take longer to steal than others depending on the value compare to yours. Also, we should get another option to steal a ship. For example, by putting your spies on factories, we should be able to steal the ship that's being built from that CIV. The same with putting your spies on research facilities, we should be able to steal the tech that's being researched from that CIV. Anyways, these are some ideas, but it's harder than you think since you must first reach advanced level of espionage on that particular CIV and you can probably forget to be able to reach an advanced level on all the players anyways. I was never able to reach advance level for more than 1 CIV unless maybe if you played on the biggest map with alot of resources.

Influence starbases should be eliminated

- Influence starbases are mainly there to built it near other planets so that you can convert their government into yours. Can't your spies do this?? For example, after reaching advanced level of espionage, you can place your agents on approval and inflence buildings. Depending on how many agents you place, it would require less time for revolt and conversion.

* Note.. you should be able to spy on planets that have been discovered only, not the one's that are across the galaxy.

User interface for spying

- Every screen that exits to find out about another race should have to go in the spying report screen. Where every information you gather from another race can be viewed here. Because currently, you can go from the diplomacy screen to view some info and also the management screen and there scattered everywhere. Basically, in the begining of the game, you should have no "stats and graphs" in the management screen?? Because the stats and graghs is currently giving me more hints than what my spies are gathering as information or intelligence level (low, medium, expert, advance etc...)

Example (put all the information gathered on a race in the following screen and no other screen in an organized fashion)...

Spying report

Choose the race (Altarian for example)

Low espionage level ( enables society )

- Race name and description
- Total population
- Number of colonies and classes of planets and names
- Approval for each colony and the total approval
- Total influence compared to yours (show it with actual numbers and bar level)
- Opinion on you and the relationship level ( hostile, wary, neutral etc...)
- Their ethical alignment (leaning good, neutral, evil)
- Any social production bonuses ( % )
- Number of influence starbases and modules (you can now click on the starbase)

Medium espionage level ( enables economy )

- Total treasury money compared to yours
- Total income for each colony
- Economic status (this is a detail global version of their economy just like you see it in your own economic tab ... for example, tourism income, military expence etc... have all the total income of the empire in one column and the total expenses of the empire on the other... and compare it to yours with actual numbers and bars)
- Number of trade routes with any other civs (names and number of routes from each)
- Any economic bonuses ( example, economic ability 80% etc... )
- Number of economic starbases and modules ( you can now click on the starbase )

Expert espionage level ( enables technology )

- List all the technologies like a mini-tree version and which tech currently researched and the time, if a certain tech enables a building list it too. for example...

so far...

1. Galactic warfare - space militarization - research laser -
laser beam I - laser beam II

2. Hyperdrive - new propulsion techniques

3. Xeno industrial theory ( enhance factory )

* Now researching laser beam III (15 weeks left)

- Any techonology bonuses ( example, tech ability 50 % etc... )

Advance espionage level ( enables military )

- Total number of each type of ships ( colony, contructor, tiny attack ships, medium attack ships etc...
- Total number of each type of ships being built and on which of their planets
- Give the intelligence report on the races strongest attack ships and their weakest

strongest large class = ( 9/0/3 attk )( 10/0/0 def )
Fleet of 3 ships = ( 27/0/9 attk )( 30/0/0 def )

Weakest medium class = ( 3/0/0 attk )( 2/0/0 def )
Fleet of 5 ships = ( 15/0/0 attk) ( 10/0/0 def )

- Any military production bonuses
- Number of military starbases and modules ( you can now click on the starbase )

* At Advance level of espionage, you can now click on the planets to see everything and also, you can now click on enemy ships where before you coudn't in order to see their stats.
Reply #6 Top
I have yet another idea for an espionage victory...
Espionage & Counter-espionage

Espionage

Intel = 40 bc/wk is the maximum spending
research tech structure lvl 1 = society (10bc)
" " lvl 2 = economy (20bc)
" " lvl 3 = technology (30bc)
" " lvl 4 = military (40bc)

Destabilization = 100 bc/wk is the maximum spending
research tech structure lvl 1 = convert 1 chosen planet (25bc)
" " lvl 2 = simultaneously convert 2 chosen planets (50bc)
" " lvl 3 = simultaneously convert 3 chosen planets (75bc)
" " lvl 4 = simultaneously convert 4 chosen planets (100bc)

Piracy = 200 bc/wk is the maximum spending
research tech structure lvl 1 = steal 1 chosen ship & 1 chosen tech (50bc)
" " lvl 2 = steal simultaneously 2 chosen ships & 1 chosen tech (100bc)
" " lvl 3 = steal simultaneously 3 chosen ships & 1 chosen tech (150bc)
" " lvl 4 = steal simultaneously 4 chosen ships & 1 chosen tech (200bc)

Terrorism = 400bc/wk is the maximum spending
research tech structure lvl 1 = blow up 1 any chosen structure (100bc)
" " lvl 2 = blow up simultaneousy 2 any chosen structures (200bc)
" " lvl 3 = blow up simultaneousy 3 any chosen structures (300bc)
" " lvl 4 = blow up simultaneousy 4 any chosen structures (400bc)

Now your wondering how does this all work in terms of gameplay?

Example gameplay

you built a lvl 3 intel structure after reasearching it, lvl 2 destabilization structure after researching it, lvl 1 piracy structure after researching it and finally a lvl 1 terrorism structure after researching it. so here is an example combination of espionage you can spend. keeping in mind that you can only focus on 1 for each department ... so you decide on the following.

you spend on gathering (intel)technoloy info (30bc), (destabalization)you spend on tryin to convert 2 planets (50bc), (pyracy)you spend on trying to steal 1 ship and 1 technology of your choosing (50bc), and finally, (terrorism)you are trying to blow-up 1 structure of your choosing for (100bc). So your grand total of espionage spending is ??? = 30+50+50+100 = 230 bc/wk.
Now, you wait for the results. If your target's counter-espionage meter is greater than what you are spending in a specific area, it will likely result in a failure and will effect your relationship or even go to war in some cases. The counter-espionage spending meter is independent from your espionage spending. So from the example above, if your spending 230 bc/wk for espionage and spending 130bc/wk for counter-espionage allocated in different areas, your grand total is 230+130 = 360 bc/wk.

*In addition, the fog of war aspect applies for targeting a planet (destabilization) or a ship in the case of trying to steal it (pyracy) and so on and so forth. Which means you have to know their locations, if you haven't found them yet it's useleless.