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Metaverse Council Elections

Metaverse Council Elections

The Metaverse Council (MVC) has recently lost a representative to the Lord of the Rings Online Beta. We'd like to get a new representative to replace this loss. Previously, MVC representatives have either been appointed by an active empire or selected from the GC2 community by the MVC itself.

However, one of the issues that was discussed when we initially formed the MVC was how to make it a truly representative body of the GalCiv2 community. At that time in the interests of expediency we chose to start the Council with representatives appointed by the major metaverse empires that were active at the time. It was certainly hoped that at some point we would move to a more democratic MVC councilor selection process. I think that this point is now.

I want to quickly refresh everyone’s memory about the purpose and scope of the MVC. Although the MVC did none of the actual work it’s clear that the introduction of AltMeta Classes would not have occurred without the effort put forth by the MVC. The MVC has recently been sitting on it’s collective laurels, taking a break from all the effort expended in helping to define the AltMeta Class system and partly due to the major forum changes that have recently occurred at the Galactic Core. In any case it’s time to get back to work.

Speaking of work there’s clearly a lot more to be done. Cari has provided an endgame.xml that is saved by the game and is something that we have great hopes for providing a whole range of new functionality to the AltMeta. We’re looking to be able to support Metaverse Mods, Metaverse Scenarios and Tournaments. The exact nature of these functions and precisely how all this will work are currently very far from being defined let alone having any specific detail worked out. There are certainly many challenges and a whole new set of infrastructure that will be associated with providing these functions. Anyway the point of this is to give folks some idea of the work that’s ahead of us.

So back to the topic of an election, the MVC would like to select a single MVC representative determined by popular election here on the GalCiv2 forums. To give folks an idea of what we're looking for we have the following criteria. We're not really interested in a popularity contest, however the potential MVC representative must; want the job, want the metaverse to succeed and flourish, and, be willing to put forth the effort it takes to achieve this goal. An established forum presence is a plus but not absolutely essential, however the ability and willingness to stand up and promote themselves, the AltMeta and the Metaverse is essential. The ability to cogently express their own opinions and the willingness to actually listen to the opinions of others is also important.

Experience in the game is absolutely *not* required. We'd rather have an exuberant newbie, than a jaded expert (however by no means would we turn down an exuberant expert).

We're not really looking for the second coming of JFK but we are looking for folks that can stand up and say that they want the job, be able to explain why they want the job, and be able to convince others that they would be good at the job. People should feel free to nominate any that they feel are particularly worthy, but it is expected that anyone interested should be able to mount at least a minimal 'campaign' on their own behalf.

They only absolute requirement on any that wish to be a MVC representative is that you *must* have submitted at least one metaverse game. It doesn't have to be a high scoring game, it doesn't even have to be a win, but you must have submitted at least a single metaverse game.

Actually, none of the above is really set in stone, they're really just guidelines that we can use to start the discussion. Besides actually considering who should be the next MVC councilor, a large part of this discussion should be about the actual process of how we go about this. This is our first attempt at "free elections" on the GalCiv2 site. How do you think this should be held? Who should be allowed to vote? These and many more questions are ones that I’d like to address in this thread.



50,215 views 124 replies
Reply #101 Top
P.S. I forgot to mention the other member of my little family. My 3 year old Buddy the Beagle.  
Reply #102 Top
TheGreatEmperor - and company!
Once again thanks for mentioning me as a possible candidate! Gratifying to say the least.   I looked over the requirements etc. and came up with a pretty good idea of how things might work out if I decided to "run for it"
how to make it a truly representative body of the GalCiv2 community
If an cranky old geezer with a bad back, a knack for assuming the worst, and too much time on his hands is representative in a significant way ... well I suppose that might apply.
We're not really interested in a popularity contest

That would be fine, especially since ... well never mind ahem.
be able to support Metaverse Mods, Metaverse Scenarios and Tournaments
I'm not familiar with those aspects. I've only posted a few games. While the little experience I do have has been limited to figuring out why my firewall was getting in the way of posting the first 3 games, and am now in the process of figuring out why the 4th game mysteriously won't post after seeing the endgame screen ... that's all good experience if others had similar issues and some advice was needed for a possible fix, but maybe not the depth of experience to offer good counsel on the mods/scenarios/tournaments.
want the job, want the metaverse to succeed and flourish, and, be willing to put forth the effort it takes to achieve this goal
To quote from one of my favorite films, "Glory" ... "I'm not sure I'm wantin' this job, Colonel". While I certainly want to see the Metaverse succeed and flourish (especially in the game posting department) I'm not sure what amount of effort that implies, exactly. Remember I am an old geezer and I might drop over dead any minute, ah ... I wouldn't want to invite that kind of scenario   
established forum presence is a plus but not absolutely essential
"Forum presence" was mentioned in reference to me, and I suppose that might be true. I have a habit of expressing my opinions openly without fear ... I'm learning more about how to behave more constructively from the others who participate, rather than by any natural talent I possess. I'd like to think I contribute something worthwhile, but a lot of times I dread "having said something wrong" by not thinking enough first.
individual elections for each place and a runoff for each one that's closely contested
I see some of the ideas being born in the process that is happening here as a sort of pre-qualification phase. I kind of shy away from saying a lot about myself as an "interview with the prospective employer" because I tend to back-slide into political tactics ... I don't like that about myself, because I detest many politicians, kind of like a cat 'hates those stupid dogs' just on general principles if nothing more specific is handy ... but if there were some kind of 'local election' before the 'big primary' where I could rest on my own laurels without feeling like I was prostituting myself, and if my name was still in the hat, then I'd probably be willing to go the whole hog.

So, to conclude this long post graciously (I hope) - I posted this more out of courtesy and respect for those who take time to seriously participate here more than because I want the job, but if you can't find anyone better, I'll be willing, and my "rules" are fair, I think. My vote would probably go for nielo, or playjeff45, though.

Reply #103 Top
Well thank you Elwopo, and now its off to coourt, as a witness JUST WISH I WAS BEING PAID  
Reply #104 Top
If an cranky old geezer with a bad back
Wait a minute, I resemble that remark.

I have a habit of expressing my opinions openly without fear
The only way to go.

I'm not sure what amount of effort that implies, exactly
Usually, just having to wade through long boring posts without falling asleep, and to pick up enough of someone else's arguement to see that there might be a germ of truth in it.

Reply #105 Top
This is starting to be a very long thread, which in some sense is good but it makes it hard to remember (particularly for us geezers) all that's gone on.

Please correct if I'm wrong and all apology if I leave anyone off (I'm doing this from memory because frankly I'm too lazy to scan through the previous pages) but the current names under consideration are: Neilo, Lynx xxx, Wynstar, PlayJeff45 and ElWhopO. I also think this was close to the order of nomination. Good names here. Certainly others are free to join in, but at this point I don't feel that we're lacking in a good qualified field of candidates. BTW the name I had in mind earlier that hadn't been mentioned yet was ElWhopO.

There is currently a discussion about Wyndstar's potential of enough of a time commitment but I think that will be fine. All in all the MVC doesn't require all that much time and simply the ability to at least check in once a week during periods of real life pressure is certainly sufficient. It would only be if this level of availability couldn't be met where a sabbatical would be necessary.

Then there's the issue of whether we want to get one or two councilors out of this current crop. This is under discussion but will definitely not be resolved until next week, but hopefully early in the week.

In the meantime we should come to some kind of conclusion about the voting process itself. I think I summarized a "working proposal" in post #97 of this thread. I think we should hear a bit more about how people feel about this proposal.
Reply #107 Top
A couple of preliminary updates. Although by no means has a final decision been made, it does seem that everyone that's commented is OK with Wyndstar's nomination and our understanding of his time availabilty. In the same preliminary vein it's looking pretty much that we will want to get two new councilors out of these upcomming elections.

Again, nothing is firmly decided but I am trying to get these issues decided ASAP.
Reply #108 Top
Actually, another point has been brought up and that is should current councilors be allowed to vote. I had assumed that current MVC councilor should probably recuse themselves but when someone else made the suggestion I really wondered why we shouldn't. Certainly "real" politicians even vote for themselves and certainly as individuals each of us has a vested interest in the success of the metaverse.

I'd like to hear what the GC2 community feels about this.
Reply #109 Top
Actually, another point has been brought up and that is should current councilors be allowed to vote. I had assumed that current MVC councilor should probably recuse themselves but when someone else made the suggestion I really wondered why we shouldn't. Certainly "real" politicians even vote for themselves and certainly as individuals each of us has a vested interest in the success of the metaverse.

I'd like to hear what the GC2 community feels about this.


I think so
Reply #110 Top
I see no problem with you guys voting.

- Wyndstar
Reply #111 Top
Well -[suspicious old geezer takes a slow, careful look around]- I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen so far 'around this joint' ... I'll just say again - I'm sure whatever you guys decide will be fine. Vote, by all means.  
Reply #112 Top
Yes, a current MVC councilor should have the opinion. Vote away. And the current voting structure as it stands is fine with me.
Reply #113 Top
Did anyone know that pressing the next key deletes your post?

Well I didnt, so now I have to rewrite everything.

Here is my opinion on the voting thing.

Mainly the fact that I dont see why the councilors cant be trusted. I mean I personally think that if we have no faith in our own honesty then well why are we talking about a democratic process of election?

Next, reelection.

Now this could be a sensitive topic seeing as we didnt discuss it at all when we were founding this empire. Sure we specified future electiong but no reelections. I mean we didnt even specify terms.

So as a joke to the problem I thought of permanent seats. Though I personally dont agree with anyone having a permanent seat, it would definetly solve the problem of future PM voting when key members of the Council are under reelection.

This is the shorter version of my post without quote included cause I dont feel like typing up everything all over again.
Reply #114 Top
Did anyone know that pressing the next key deletes your post?


Hehe. I found out the hard way too.   



My thoughts exactly. If there's a reason for a particular counselor to have lost the public trust, that can be handled from within the council (recall or whatever). I'm unaware of anything related to that though. Members shouldn't give up their voice simply because they serve on the council. That's just silly.

Reply #115 Top


My thoughts exactly. If there's a reason for a particular counselor to have lost the public trust, that can be handled from within the council (recall or whatever). I'm unaware of anything related to that though. Members shouldn't give up their voice simply because they serve on the council. That's just silly.


No doubt whatsoever at all not even a thought to the contrary ... I'm just voicing an impression from what TheGreatEmperor said ... there is always a need to follow some sort of immutable legal form; which extends the proper framework beyond the control of the present Council; so that in future the purpose and intent can not be distorted by less (or more) wise and caring individuals.

That always applies imho, in any case. As to what that form might be, I'm not sure, but I know it should exist.
Reply #116 Top
As it stands, this is a test bed for future elections and reelections as well as to add new members. I believe the policies will come once we have some substantial data from this election to know the best way to implement this in the future.

I had believed from the start that the council seats were not permanent, since as with any game peoples interest and participation may change. We've already seen some of this, hence the need now to replace and expand the council.

We hope to get this show on the road soon, but right now we're trying to make sure all current councillors are present and accounted for as well as their opinions heard, since our recent "vacation" and forum switchover.

Again, I'd like to thank those that have stepped up and shown their interest in the welfare of the Metaverse and the GC2 community.

I continue to urge others to get their two cents in as well.


Reply #117 Top
Did anyone know that pressing the next key deletes your post?
Yes. I seem to do this every 10 to 20 posts or so. I've gotten into the habit of composing anything longer than a paragraph in Word so that I have a copy.

A few interesting points have been brought up here. Certainly established rules and procedures are necessary even for a game based organization like the MVC, otherwise you end up making up things as you go along and that certainly doesn't inspire any confidence.

The nature of future MVC re-elections is an interesting discussion as well but I'd rather not distract from the immediate topic in this already rather long thread. Suffice it to say there are a number of interesting options that we can consider. I don't think permanent councilors of any kind are a good idea, but I do happen to like a mix of empire selected and generally elected councilors, but this is a topic for another day.



So the gist of what I'm getting is that folks are fine with the PM method where a limited set of designated MVC councilors will receive all votes via PM. These votes will be tallied in the private Council Chambers over at the Core to insure no duplication. Individual councilors may vote for candidates but should refrain from any public show of favoritism. After the announced election period the complete results showing who voted for whom will be publicly posted.



We still need resolution of two issues prior to proceeding with the actual elections. One note about how MVC business has been conducted in the past. We have these tightly specified rules about how votes within the council should proceed. The issue with taking these kinds of votes is that they take time. Most of the time is there to make sure that everyone has had time to make their opinion known and to present argument in support of it. We have also on occasion eschewed the necessity of a vote if it's clear what the consensus is *and* no councilor objects to this skipping of a vote. This is sort of based more on precedence than on any explicit rule and is really a compromise between time and the letter of the law.

In some cases this can get us in some little bit of trouble, for example the discussion between myself and TGE at the beginning of the thread. I had assumed that we had reached consensus on the issue and acted accordingly, whereas TGE's remembrance was slightly different. In the end I don't think this was a very big deal. At the point it became clear that there was a discrepancy we simply took it to a vote and the issue resolved itself.

Anyway, that's a long winded explanation of how things have worked in practice in the MVC. The reason I've brought this up is that we currently have two issues to resolve before we can proceed with a vote. I personally hope that these two issues can be resolved by consensus within the next day or two without having to take them to a vote. If we do have to take them to a vote it will probably be close to two weeks before we can proceed.

Anyway, the first of these issues is Wyndstar's potential time commitment concern. On this issue there has been a sufficient amount of feedback that has occurred within the private Council Chambers that gives me confidence that we have a consensus that the MVC is OK with Wyndstar's nomination. Unless I hear a scream of anguish from any current MVC councilor I think we will proceed on that basis.

The second issue is how many councilors we should elect in this current election. My opinion is that we need to elect two councilors. So far I haven’t received enough response to this question to have any warm and fuzzy feeling that the MVC is in agreement with this. I still hope to get sufficient response to this in the Council Chambers so that we can avoid a vote. However, if this doesn’t happen then we will have to call a vote and potentially wait a few days before starting the vote then another 5 days for the vote to occur. Hopefully we can avoid this delay and start with the real elections by the end of this week.
Reply #118 Top
So the gist of what I'm getting is that folks are fine with the PM method where a limited set of designated MVC councilors will receive all votes via PM. These votes will be tallied in the private Council Chambers over at the Core to insure no duplication. Individual councilors may vote for candidates but should refrain from any public show of favoritism. After the announced election period the complete results showing who voted for whom will be publicly posted.


This method seems to cover most bases and doesn't leave any room for malicious voting. I think this thread has shown there is still alot of life in the MV and with any luck a few more nominee's will pop up before the election begins.

Reply #119 Top
If I may, I believe that Wyndstar not being in the election would be a potentially huge loss for the MVC elections. His knowledge and support for all players is quite immense. My ten cents worth, chat later.
Reply #120 Top
All right, I think we have a reasonable consensus on the issues that the MVC needed to resolve prior to heading into elections. In the interests of time and getting these elections started none of these issues have been decided by a formal vote but as I said it’s clear to me that we do have a “reasonable consensus” of agreement within the MVC.

The first of these issues is Wyndstar’s concern about the time commitment required by the MVC. Everyone has been pretty clear that one way or another, this will be fine. Either Wyndstar will be able to keep up with minimal check-ins to the MVC (i.e. once a week) during his peak busy periods or if this turns out to be too big a commitment then there is no real issue with going to a “sabbatical” as required. As far as the number of councilors the MVC would like to elect at this time the answer is two. There is also agreement that current MVC councilors should be allowed to vote although they should refrain from showing public support to any one nominee.

The other concern that has been resolved for awhile now but I’m not sure whether or not I mentioned it was the issue of the requirement of a metaverse game submission. The MVC did take a formal vote on the issue and it was approved that all MVC councilors and nominees are required to have submitted at least a single metaverse game but a metaverse game submission would not be a voting requirement.

So I think we have pretty much everything in place. One final issue is specifically how to deal with the multiple vote issue. It was suggested that there should be some kind of indication with each vote as to which the first choice was and which was the second choice and then somehow weighting the 1st, 2nd, … place votes. My suggestion was that each person would vote for a number of candidates equal to the number of open positions. I’m not sure but perhaps the “weighted’ method may be a statistically more “correct” method. Perhaps. But even if it is I doubt it is a significant advantage that out weighs the extra complexity involved. So I propose we go with everyone votes for two candidates and these votes are simply totaled and the top two are “elected”. This is consistent with the KISS principle that we strive to apply whenever possible.

The vote will occur by PM on the GalCiv2 site to designated MVC councilors that will tally the votes in private and at the end make the list of all voters, and who they voted for, public.

I’m certainly willing to hear some more discussion on any and all of these “proposals” but the window of opportunity for discussion is rapidly closing. I think this is consistent with the consensus opinion of both MVC councilors and the GalCiv2 community that we should “get on with it”.

At this point I want to list our current nominee’s and point out their “campaign speech” post for folks to check out. I think I’ll wait a day and then start another thread for brevities sake to do a further summary of the candidates and give them a final opportunity to make a statement and then essentially start the voting process.

The candidates in nomination acceptance order along with the post that seems to be most like a “campaign speech” are the following.

Neilo (reply #37)
Lynx xxx (reply #41)
Wyndstar (reply #78)
PlayJeff45 (reply #100)
ElWhopO (reply #102)

As a current MVC councilor I’m not supposed to show any particular favoritism towards any one candidate, and I don’t. But I do want to take the opportunity to say that I have every confidence that any and all of these candidates would make an excellent MVC councilor. I truly believe that while the capabilities of one or the other of these candidates may be marginally better than another’s, that all of these candidates have the best interests of the metaverse at heart. From that point of view the MVC can’t lose regardless of the outcome of these elections.

I also want to make mention and thank some of the folks that have participated in this thread, Purge, Cornhusker, MottiKhan, all very well known and respected members of the community. I’d also like to thank Swiffo for the opinion of someone that’s “relatively new to the forum” even though I wouldn’t take the opinion of anyone that’s submitted 5 suicidal wins lightly. I do want to say to all of these folks and the many more that have been paying attention to this thread to make sure to vote and help us encourage others to do so as well. This is your metaverse.
Reply #121 Top
Kind words, Mumblefratz. Thanks.

In my personal view, everything seems to be in order. Wyndstar has been a defacto leader in these forums by earned respect and in most cases, admiration. I doubt that anyone would speak against his nomination.

As per the voting method, you've worked it out well for a fair and timely vote. PMs with one vote per opening is as fair as it can be and it keeps the bureaucracy level to a minimum. Good job on that.

I assume that you'll be publishing the names of the designated Councellors so we can send our votes in before summer commitments take some of us away from the forums for a while.

The only thing I can think of to add would be a shameless plug to reiterate my support for neilo and offer my support for Wyndstar. Having two open positions has definate advantages.

Remember folks. Vote early, vote often.   

Reply #122 Top
I assume that you'll be publishing the names of the designated Councellors so we can send our votes in before summer commitments take some of us away from the forums for a while.

I'll open up a new thread tomorrow with details. I'd also like all the candidates to respond to that thread with a short paragraph. Nothing fancy, just a few heart felt words.

I'd like to give folks a decent amount of time to respond, I really don't want to cut this short. I'm thinking at least a week. Anyway, as I said I'll post some more tomorrow.
Reply #123 Top
Sounds like good progress is being made! I'm looking forward to my first chance to exercise my "right to vote".  

Brezelius
Reply #124 Top
Sounds like good progress is being made! I'm looking forward to my first chance to exercise my "right to vote".

Thank you and you've got it. See the Voting for MVC Councilors starts Now thread that I just posted giving directions on how to participate. Thank you for your interest and support.