Z71, take this discussion off-line if you wish to discuss it further.  It really has no place in this discussion  vStyler has stated that he will not respond to this thread.  I would hope that IRB will also choose not to continue this path.

I'd like to apologize if I came off a little strong regarding the theme, Probably stems from the all of the thoughtless bashing I have taken from minimalists over the years.

Anyway, I'm over the whole issue and thx for Zubaz as usual being the voice of reason in the storm of controversy.

I have never seen or downloaded a 'bad' skin from here....ever! Admittedly, some skins didn't appeal to me on first viewing, but, at a later date, when I've downloaded a new wall or IP set, etc, some of those 'so-say' non-appealing skins have been perfect matches for the desktop I've assembled. Fortunately, I have never left 'yuk' type comments to later find myself with egg on my face.

When I first came to WC, I was looking for the most dressed up skins I could find to cover up the Fischer Price look of XP - and I still look for and use this type of skin - but I've also found minimalistic skins to be more than useful when a wallpaper and icon set demand something less 'flowery' and/or intricate.

Like I said, there's no such thing as a 'bad' skin, because someone somewhere will like and happily use it, and that's all it takes to make it a good skin, regardless of any negative or untoward comments by those who happen not to fancy it. Therefore, I feel that negative and/or downright nasty comments can also be insulting to the users who like the skins, not just to the creator. Such things are not good for anyone involved in the community and are best left out so as to foster good-will rather than ill-will.

I don't have the talent, knowledge or expertise to advise skinners as to how they can technically skin various aspects of their skins any better, so I can only speak about what I like in the skin, or perhaps that I'd like to see something in addition to or aesthetically done differently....but as a suggestion rather than critique.

It may be considered a positive thing (by some) for some skinners/people around here to grow thicker skins, but it'd be more positive and peaceful if those with nothing nice to say actually said nothing at all.....cos ultimately it's far better to exchange pleasantries than engage in an avoidable altercation.

My apologies to Kitty,community and Z71...I went a bit berserk(my straitjacket was bunching and my droolcup was running over).

Making such a scene over a percieved slight was and is not me.

  

I would also like to apologize. To the community and to I.R. Brainiac.
I know better than this. I should have taken it off the thread and cleared things up immediately.
I have no excuse. I'm hoping we can say that we all make mistakes and get back to normal.

My apologies, also, to Kitty for taking over the thread.

Thanks, guys....

Art: One of the most powerful of all versions of expression. Kinda like smell...it's either a great turn on, a somewhat "heh...that's ok", or it bloody well stinks to high heavens!!

Not at all very lenient, few categories to define it.

Constructive criticism is not defined by someone saying "it SHOULD be like this, or I would have done it THAT way". Sorry to say, that leaving comments on how YOU would have done it, is a moot point, and pompous to be direct. It's not your skin to say what the outcome should be. This goes for oil paintings, wallpapers, graphic design...etc, etc.

My view on constructive criticism, is HOW the skin reacts with the desktop environment. Some have noted that they download the theme, apply it...and see how well it responds to use. I seemed to see that the Control Panel issue runs rampant among starter skins, all the way up to the levels of JJ Ying, or VStyler... simple things, yet people get bashed for it with the words "needs to be fixed". Comments like "needs rollover buttons or I'm not going to use it"... WHAT!?!?! The skin is as it is. Use it, Like it....or not. No one's bending your arm over your head and up your anal region to get you to like it.

If you plan on offering true criticism, there are lots of ways to do this...so that the person creating the theme sees it thru YOUR eyes. Get that person to stand in front of that same mirror you're looking into so they can see what you do. I think more and more nowadays, people use things like "the start menu fonts look like shit" as an effort to compile constructive criticism, when, (like I've had to endure) it can boil down to an issue with a desktop setting, or worse, it didn't install correctly.

I've seen themes here get great attention....but in a real world, they are almost useless to use on a daily basis. Why? The artistry going into them is fantastic, but then you apply the theme to see that the window border size is GIGANTIC taking up valuable screen real estate. Or the bottom window frame is so small, that the typical program text that would otherwise show up at the bottom, isn't there anymore. As someone already pointed out, the DELETE button is there and it takes a millionth of a second to click, vs typing a long speech on how you disliked the theme and offer it as criticism.

In my little world, I appreciate the artistry of the themes I've seen over the years. It's come a long way... however, what makes a usable theme to me, isn't easy to find.

I'm not sure if anyone really noticed the full effect of the last GUI Championships...but in my opinion, a winning theme (not for the purpose of a prize) is a usable theme. Themes that tend to have nothing to them, or those that try and stuff ten pounds of crap in a five pound bag...well, it's like Hell, great place to visit, don't want to live there.

Remember, true criticism allows another to see things thru another's eyes...let the artist make the fixes if that is the proper course. Using your power as a "master" creator to thrust your opinions to reflect changes you want in a theme...(not reflecting on a master level user here, just those that have been around the block)...well, that's what you have Skin Studio for. Ask permission, and change it yourself to use.

Criticism is a tough thing to pull off.  Some handle it well, even when it's rude, brutal and coarse.  Some handle it very poorly even if it's stated with the utmost care, respect and tact.  The percieved tone of any feedback is mostly dependent on the artist receiving it. 

I've seen cases where someone posted a comment about how they didn't like a skin because it was too transparent and made it hard for them to use.  It was reasonably stated, honest, not hurtful or mean and was merely feedback from the user as to why they did not like the skin.  The artist did not react well.  (no, no links, names or any hints to help narrow down the specific instance).  They were fine so long as all the feedback was positive.  First sign of of a non-glowing review and things turned ugly.  Friends of the artist turned on the dissenting view and were less than nice themselves.  All because someone expressed an opinion.

With the exception of those who are just out-and-out-rude (NewJerseyDevil being a recent example), I think many people simply don't bother because posting anything that's an honest bit of feedback, but not necessarily fawning over the artist and their work, isn't worth the backlash that could very likely result.  Some people just have a very thin skin and don't handle negative feedback well (even a constructive critique is seen as negative by some).

And as we've seen on even these forums many times over, sometimes a comment that was meant well enough by, can be misinterpreted as being mean and spiteful (or insincere with the overuse of smileys).  So any comment that isn't 100% positive and praising has to run an obstacle course of tact, careful wording, and consideration of egos of all involved.

It's a lot of work to post a comment saying you might not like something about a skin or icon pack.

All pertinent points, I would also like to add into the mix It's often hard for some of us that have been at it a while to offer constructive criticism while not coming off as condascending to someone.

condescending...

appologies not necessary my fellow fiend I.R...i luv ya regardless...same for you too Z...