particularly when the vendors themselves are so cavilier about providing any real information.

How true. I've been in touch with HP support for about three days now and the tech assigned to me insists that my computer's psu (rated at 300w) is more than enough to handle my nvidia 7600GT card. Nvidia recommends 350w. So as you pointed out, what is a consumer, especially one like myself with limited comp knowledge, supposed to do? Like you said, to run the amp draw tests is just insanely time consuming over something that should be a cut and dry issue. This is why I said that I will just shell out the extra hundred or so and have the peace of mind that everything is more than 'up to snuff'.
The sad thing is I just bought this computer in June... and already having to improve it is just a pain in the ass. Now I am not that naive and know all about the constant technology changes... but come on. I will never again buy a prebuilt system. EVER. I think I'm just going to start stashing cash now and in a year or two I should have enough to go to the Monroeville Expo Mart and put together a system of my own. Who knows... I think it would be fun.

Did you buy this system from HP as it is or did you add the 7600GT yourself?

If you bought the system as is from HP with the 7600 installed then you're fine regardless of what others have said about wimpy HP PSU's.

If you bought the 7600 and installed it yourself then it's a bit different. However, if you did what card was in there previously?

I agree with not buying a pre-built system, but that's mainly from the point of view of all the crap that they put on your hard drive. From a straight hardware point of view, I got about as good a deal from HP as I could have from newegg or ibuypower. I don't know anything about this Monroeville Expo Mart however.

Did you buy this system from HP as it is or did you add the 7600GT yourself?

I bought the system at Circuit City. It has integrated nvidia 6150LE video, which didn't do badly with GC2, but still had some issues on a gigantic galaxy, late game.
I bought the card around the beginning of December and installed it myself. I totally wiped out my drivers (the one that came with the card was about two versions behind the most recent)and did a clean install with the most current drivers, as per CariElf. Works great and so far I am happy with it, but there seems to be an issue regarding the fan. After installing the vid card, the fan will now run on what seems to be 'high' whenever I first turn my computer on. As I play, regardless of what game, the fan will occasionally go on and off. Now I assume this is normal, but sometimes it doesn't seem to make sense 'when' it is kicking on. I've monitored the temp a few times and never really saw it make any kind of jump that would indicate an overheating issue, but as I said, I don't know much about this stuff.
Monroeville Expo is a gigantic tech 'fair' that goes on here in Pittsburgh roughly three to six times a year. If you know what you're doing with regards to electronics, it is THE place to go for all audio/video needs as the price is about as low as you can go. The problem is, you better know what you're doing because there is really no one there who is going to take the time to give you advice. Their take on it is "you should know what you're doing if you are attempting to do that" motto. There is some tech support there from the vendors, but again, you better have all of your info/numbers/whatever before walking in and filling your cart. I believe I am almost at that point.

I did a little bit of searching on the 7600GT power consumption and it's pretty much on the low end. According to Xbit this draws about 3A. This is compared to the approximate 10A drawn by a top end card such as the Radeon X1900 or GeForce 7950GX2.

Xbitlabs 7600GT Power COnsumption

Thanks for the link Mumblefratz. Even though I have limited knowledge in this field, it seems that I should be fine with a 300w psu, but I will still upgrade. Once the bug is in me, it's all over. Besides, maybe I can throw in a little something on top of the 'wish list' without the wife protesting too much.
Incidentally, did you finally get to play GC2 on your new computer yet? If so, how did you like it? Originally I thought I saw you write that you were getting a 7900 card, so when I read that you have the 7600GT I was a little confused. It's the competition thing... no sooner I go out and buy a card and then you announce that you're getting a new computer... I just try to stay ahead of the game a little, that's all.
You've been a great help in a lot of ways Mumblefratz, and this is another fine example. I couldn't seem to find my card's specs (with regards to power usage)anywhere... and viola! Mumblefratz to the rescue.

Incidentally, did you finally get to play GC2 on your new computer yet?

Not yet. I’m still working on it. Took me all weekend to set up the network between my new PC, the old PC and the DSL hub.   
I then have to upgrade my old PC for my wife's use before I can start playing again.   

I did want to get the 7900GS (not GT) but I didn't want to buy the system from some guy named Tran somewhere in CA that had half a dozen Better Business Bureau complaints against him. I went with HP and I basically had to accept the lower end card. For all I know it was because their PSU couldn’t support the 7900GS. I did however get a 19" 1280x1024 flatpanel for $50. I couldn’t have done it for cheaper at newegg of ibuypower.

The “planned obsolescence” of these PC’s is criminal. I hope not to have to do this again for awhile, I’m hoping 5 years but that’s probably overly optimistic. Oh well.   

Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

I understand that you would like to know the recommended power supply for the GeForce 7600 GT graphics card.

Mike, the recommended power supply for the GeForce 7600GT graphics card is 450Watts.

Regards,

NVIDIA Customer Care.

Just wanted to share this email with you Mumblefratz since I know you said that you have a 350w power supply. I asked this question and specified that I would only be running with one card, not a dual set-up. The recommended power is still 450w. Guess that goes to show what you commented on earlier...

input voltage for 300W models:

100-127v/6A
200-240V/3A

maximum output wattage - 300W or 250W


To know the specifications of Nvidia GeForce 7600 GT Graphics Card,
please visit the web link provided below. The power consumption for this
card is 67 W.

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=318

The one above and this one following were from HP
In checking the specifications of your PC, I found out that the Power
Supply installed on your PC is 300 W and it is sufficient to install a
Video Card.

The recommended power is still 450w. Guess that goes to show what you commented on earlier...

If what you mean by what I commented on earlier is that these folks apparently can't tell the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground, then yes.

Here's a couple of links from EVGA, BFG and PNY all of which make a GeForce 7600GT. BFG's is overclocked at 580 MHz, the others are standard 560 MHz.

EVGA = single 350W (18A of 12V) dual 400W (24A of 12V)

BFG = single 350W (20A of 12V) dual 400W (28A of 12V)

PNY = single 300W (??A of 12V) dual 400W (22A of 12V)

Anyway, since my card came explicitly with my system I have no concern about my power supply. I did check though and SLI isn't supported.

If what you mean by what I commented on earlier is that these folks apparently can't tell the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground, then yes.

That is a big AFFIRMATIVE.

their ass and a hole in the ground

Right now it feels like I have both...  Serious, thank you so much guys for the info. I was going crazy, but now I’m 100% sure that the VC companies and the PSU companies made a deal with the Devil, to pump out oversized PSU, and hence increase the global warming, and hence use more oil, and hence make G W Bush an billionaire, and hence make me crazy, and hence...   

STOP! I think I found a solution, but first some German precision. Over here, we do get the hard facts from Germany (as expected)! I’m in for a buy on a Fujitsu Siemens Esprimo P5916 C2D 1.86GHz 1GB-160GB, and the overloaded datasheet tells me that:

Power consumption for standard Configuration C2D E6400
Average = 66W
Peak (CD in use) = 101W

Power consumption for standard Configuration P4 541
Average = 74W
Peak (CD in use) = 160W

I don’t think there’s any hidden mysterious "German-Japanese-Power-Reducer" in this system, and this should give a fairly reasonable hint for any standard PC. Add 36W for 7600GT, and global warming is history, 300W PSU will do just fine.

BUT! To be absolutely sure, plug in an energy-meter (V/W/A) in wall (for the PC only) and run normal tasks for one our. End of discussion.

This whole debate gets really convoluted in a hurry. You can get to the bottom of it, but it takes a fair amount of time and a certain tolerance for ambiguity. I just got done doing a bunch of research on how to replace my 250W Dell PSU, after I wanted to upgrade my PSU, so here's what I learned...

If you want to estimate power consumption for a card, I'd just go to a good product site with lots of informed customer reviews (I found www.newegg.com to be the best site) and see what comments people might make about power requirements.

The reason NVidia, like all the game card manufacturers, err on the high side in terms of estimating wattage requirements is because power consumption is complicated, they don't trust vendors to publicize all the information that's needed, and they don't trust most customers to figure it out.

The main requirement for a driver is how many Amps you can run on your 12V rail. In general, bigger PSUs (with higher Wattage) have higher Amp limits on their 12V rail(s).

However, the video card isn't the only thing drawing on a PSU (the processor and various drives join the list of usual suspects here). If a PSU is generating too much power for too many different things, regardless of how much current a single rail can support, it'll start to heat up in a hurry.

If it runs too hot, and there's no good way dissipate that heat (that's why they talk about fans and cooling), bad things can happen to your computer. You can get a feel for some of these details at a site like http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/.

Happy Hunting!!   

This is all well and good. The best advice after all of the 'research' that I've performed is this:
My HP comes w/a 300 watt psu, pushing 19 amps on the one and only 12v rail that I am aware of (as an aside, my older HP 7955 has a 100 watt psu and it came with a graphics card?!?). Now this should be enough to power everything under a 'full load' with little difficulty... should be. The problem is, unless you are running some software to monitor everything as you go about your daily routine on the computer, you don't really know what is going on. A result, in the long term, would be component failure due to lack of power or power surges, caused by inadequate psu's.
Now I know that I personally don't tax the hell out of my PC, even during gaming, so my requirements weren't that large... but I tried to anticipate 'growing' my system in the future. My graphics card, a nvidia geforce 7600GT, isn't a very demanding card, and isn't the top of the line, but it is SLI capable, and it runs this game nicely. I recently purchased the OCZ Gamextreme 700 watt psu... and I love it. More than enough connections for system growth, four 12v rails, and a rock solid 18 amps through all four of them. Got it from Newegg for 150.00 and awaiting a thirty dollar rebate.
Next I'm going for a new motherboard and processor... probably sticking with AMD, but most likely going to dual core.

The bottom line is... better safe than sorry, especially with these prices.

Not to rain on your parade but besides a maximum current drawn from each different power rail, there's also a minimum current drawn requirement as well. This is due to issues of stability. You might want to verify that it's OK to draw no load on your two currently unused 12V rails.

[edit] It never seems to end, doesn't it? [/edit]

Not to rain on your parade but besides a maximum current drawn from each different power rail, there's also a minimum current drawn requirement as well. This is due to issues of stability. You might want to verify that it's OK to draw no load on your two currently unused 12V rails.

Mumblefratz, your words are never rain for my parades! I look forward to your comments because you always add something more to think about, and there's nothing wrong with looking at all possibilities, especially with regards to PC's. From what info I've gathered, I should be fine with regards to the minimum draw (this is based from other consumer reviews and some forum chatter on an AMD site). A couple of people suggested using whatever programs were recommended to 'change' the psu values throughout the computer, but I honestly don't think I wish to get into this yet (I guess a degree of 'overclocking' is implied) as my system has been doing quite well since upgrading the graphics card and psu. I also used the 101 XP Tips and Tweaks article from PCStats, and was able to 'clean up' a few things as well as getting my autostart programs down to about 23 or so running (a heck of a lot less than the odd forty something I started out with, but nothing near what you have been able to accomplish!).
So yes, I 'think' I am safe. If not, I have three years to swap out the psu should something go wrong... and if something else were to go in the meantime (heaven forbid), it will either be a blessing in the form of getting a new system... or a divorce ... not sure what that one would be... (just kidding honey)