Pigs can fly and Lucifer is down to his neck in snow!

IE7 will feature CSS2 and alphatransparent png files!

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx
from JoeUser Forums
Yup! That's right! If you are a webdeveloper you'll be very interesting in one of the recent statements from the IE team. They are working to fully support CSS2 (and CSS2.1 when it's recommened). Additionally, they are fixing quite a few rendering bugs. They have spent alot of time identifying all the various bugs and quirks reported by the webdeveloper community and plans to fix at least the worst of them. (The ABBR tag will appear in IE7!)
It's hard to belive that such a statement finally came, considering it's all seemed so very dead from IE since XP. When we first saw lifesign it was all about security and the webdevs still felt left out. But now our time has come! Read the blogentry for you self. I*m sure it'll bring a smile to your face!
12,691 views 24 replies
Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Did I overlook tabs?
TouchTasks - Access tasks with ease on Windows touchscreens.
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
This is very welcome news. I am very new to CSS, but in working on Link I found it very frustrating to be writing compliant code, which would look fine in Firefox, but when checked in IE would look odd or not work.

In particular the 3-pixel jog and guillotine plagued me. In fact, the guillotine still affects some of my pages.

Teaching myself, learning as I went, was made more difficult be IE6's non-compliant rendering. I probably even picked up some bad habits as I incorporated work-arounds as a rule of thumb.

I do think it is a little late in coming, but overall great news.
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think your title tends to overrate the importance of this non-event. I mean, Apple turning to Intel? Yes, big deal!

Microsoft tweaking their CSS code management? I'm sure there are at least eight people who really do give a flip about this, but come on now.

Just because the media makes money on the hype doesn't mean the rest of us need to succumb to it.
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I would switch to IE7...but I've been spoiled by Firefox's Extentions...and now I don't know if I could use a browser without them. If they make mouse gestures for IE7, I'll consider it...
Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
big whoop... as they say...
Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm kind of a beginning web developer, and this news brings me overwhelming joy. Of course, we'll have to wait for a year or more for IE7 to take over IE6's place, but eventually, soon, designing web pages will get a LOT easier.
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think the only people very excited about this are web developers, because IE already works virtually everywhere for the rest of us. And that's all most of us care about. Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing, but just not overly exciting.

Also, IE has had tabs, extensions (called plugins), mouse gestures, etc., for years. It's in a package called Maxthon.

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Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What the old and new IE can and cannot do is the point here, not what silly amounts of plugins or other browsers can do to fix it. IE itself hasn't had tabs, gestures, pop up blocking or any of the other "what is now standard" features others have for any amount of time, and definetly not from a completely independent browser called Maxthon.

Thats like saying "Windows has had object dock and a taskbar at the top of the screen for years, it's called OSX."

Opera is to the point of almost non-use, it has all these features, Firefox the one generating the most competition to IE, it has them, Safari pretty much has them all, even Maxthon has them. But IE doesn't, hasn't, and still might not during the time that they're trying to play catchup is the point. Not to mention IE this new version was supposed to be out months ago?

As far as web developers go it's a big help to add some of the features we've been wanting to use but couldn't because the "standard" was so limiting compared to the others. Now developers can start to do more without worrying about whether the general audience will have a compatable browser. But aside from the developer position, as a user of the browser, if it can't hold up or offer anymore than just finally updating to the current decades code and doesn't give much in the way of usability features I don't see a whole lot to get excited about as far as actually using the browser. It's basically saying IE will "at some point" do at least some of what other browsers have done for years.

If it wasn't for the fact that developers have to design sites to work for IE in particular due to the masses of the common joe using IE because it's on their computer when they get it, developers wouldn't care too much either.

I'll be glad to hear the final list of what it has and what it can do to see if it's worth going back to using, but as much as this is a much needed step, it's not enough yet.
Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So pretty soon we can give it a right good kicking to find out what was fixed, what is still broken and any new fuck ups that have sprung up. Let's hope that when this comes out it'll quickly propagate, or else I'll have to keep track of even more browser quirks.

As for alpha support for .png: yay!
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What the old and new IE can and cannot do is the point here, not what silly amounts of plugins or other browsers can do to fix it. IE itself hasn't had tabs, gestures, pop up blocking or any of the other "what is now standard" features others have for any amount of time, and definetly not from a completely independent browser called Maxthon.

Thats like saying "Windows has had object dock and a taskbar at the top of the screen for years, it's called OSX."


What a silly analogy. Maxthon is a wrapper for IE. It's NOT a completely independent browser. And OSX is NOT a wrapper for Windows.

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Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think your title tends to overrate the importance of this non-event. I mean, Apple turning to Intel? Yes, big deal!

Microsoft tweaking their CSS code management? I'm sure there are at least eight people who really do give a flip about this, but come on now.

Just because the media makes money on the hype doesn't mean the rest of us need to succumb to it.

If you are making websites then this is a big deal. Consider that IE still holds eighty percent -something of the browsermarket. The webdeveloper community has been complaining about IE's CSS and rendering bugs for years now. When I make website the most amount of time is spent tweaking it to play nice in IE. A waste of time and money if you ask me.
Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've been waiting for IE to support transparent PNG's for a good 3 years now so I can at last drop the obsolete and ugly 8 bits GIF format at last. Yes, it is a big deal. Much bigger than the addition of tabs or popup blocking.
Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What a silly analogy. Maxthon is a wrapper for IE. It's NOT a completely independent browser. And OSX is NOT a wrapper for Windows.


he meant to say "it's called objectdock".
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Maxthon Internet Browser software is a powerful tabbed browser with a highly customizable interface. It is based on the Internet Explorer browser engine (your most likely current web browser) which means that what works in the IE browser will work the same in Maxthon tabbed browser but with many additional efficient features like...


That's pulled right off of Maxthon's website, so where exactly does "based on" translate into a "plugin or wrapper", or more importantly, no matter what Maxthon is; how does it relate to Microsoft's official release anyway? Maxthon isn't affiliated or in any way endorsed by Microsoft, nor would they likely ever care to be. Basically put, Maxthon and Internet Explorer are not the same thing.

And saying "ohhh...Internet Explorer has always been able to do this and that for YEARS (even though "it" hasn't), because IF you download and install this unsuporrted 3rd party thing, that supposedly isn't a seperate program yet is bigger than pretty much any other complete browser out there, (although ironically it doesn't list itself as "a package for IE called Maxthon" but simply called "Maxthon Browser") then that somehow means that Microsoft's Internet Explorer has always had things it just plain as day doesn't have..." is such a silly statement, it's hard to make an analogy that doesn't sound equally as silly.

But not that I don't believe you realize that already, the simple fact that Maxthon isn't IE, and IE doesn't come with Maxthon, the only real issue to this is what does IE do itself, out of the box. Bringing up what other browsers can do you might as well just throw in Firefox and Opera and all the rest.

We know that other plugins and browsers have allowed us to do new and often thought "better" things for a good few years, the point is we want, and it's time that Internet Explorer finally did them as well. Wouldn't you agree?

BTW, sorry for my all too common rants.
Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Regardless of what Maxthon has on their site, the fact remains, it's a wrapper for IE. It uses the IE engine. So it's not like Opera, Firefox, OSX or any of your other examples. It IS Internet Explorer with extra features.

Yes, of course it would be nice if IE had all that stuff built-in, but it doesn't, and probably never will. So if you want the benefits of IE without some of the drawbacks, there are solutions, such as Maxthon.

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Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Fair enough.
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Regardless of what Maxthon has on their site, the fact remains, it's a wrapper for IE.


IE wrapper, stand-alone browser, it doesn't matter! It may run on top of IE, It may be based on the code of IE, but it has become a whole new animal all together. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is certainly not an elephant. It cannot be considered IE anymore. And, after all, anyone who is capable enough to go and download Maxthon (or any other non-IE browser/plugin for that matter) is not who we are talking about here anyway.

We are talking about those that will NEVER download a 3rd party browser (or "wrapper") as long as they've got one built in. The people who comprise the overwhelming majority of internet users out there. This whole thread is about IE finally coming into compliance with CSS regs and fixing other rendering glitches. So, web designers can stop worrying about things rendering properly in IE ... or designing for IE at the expense of other browsers.

So if you want the benefits of IE without some of the drawbacks, there are solutions, such as Maxthon.


There is also another entire conversation in this statement. What, exactly, could you call "benefits" of IE? It's minimalistic approach to features? Oh wait, the lack of features is one of the drawbacks ... How about it's wonderful liberal approach to page rendering? Oh yeah, that's one of the problems they are fixing in IE7. It's small footprint? Oh, you say you lost that when you added a "wrapper" to it that is larger than most other whole browsers? Hmmm ... I'm all out of things that IE brings to mind off the bat and I'm not seeing any benefits yet. Except maybe the ability to surf the web(that is one thing IE has going for it), but how is that a benefit over any other browser?

But never fear friend, as soon as IE7 comes out (and the subsequent Maxthon release) your "benefits of IE" will finally be up to snuff with the rest of us. lol
Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What, exactly, could you call "benefits" of IE?


For starters, it works on 99.9% of all websites. Name me another browser that does so.

Secondly, there are many, many programs and extensions written to support IE. Granted, other browsers have this too. But Maxthon has it's own plugins, plus can use many of those written specifically for IE.

Except maybe the ability to surf the web(that is one thing IE has going for it), but how is that a benefit over any other browser?


Right, because who uses a browser to surf the web?

But hey, unlike the obnoxious Firefox and Opera fanboys, I'm not trying to get anyone to conform to my choices. I'll always be the very first one to say you should use what works best for you, and not try and tell others what to use.

I'm only pointing out that there are already options that add a lot of cool features to the IE engine, if you find that works best for you.

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Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well aside from the only important part being the initial IE release, but not the pluggins, because thats all a developer and such can expect people to use, and that microsoft should have features like most of the other browsers so as not to just be nice to developers but also users, such as tabs and popup blockers (even though SP2 or whatever took care of that one) if for no other reason than to just be nice to use spoiled people... They could even be really nice and whatever is finally released as 7.0, make a compatible mac version, (they're still stuck on like 5.0 or 5.5) and most importantly make the throbber like really really cool spinning around and doing flips and such, with like pixie dust and fireworks going off in the background as the windows logo sings your favorite song in the microsoft sam voice.

But Tarkus, forgive me for saying what must be said...

g0 d0wn10ad FiRef0x n b a 1337 fAnB0y 1iKe uS, j00 n00bzor.

But yeah he is right, IE isn't just the most used browser, there's some sites that just won't work on anything but. Usually I only have that trouble when I'm purchasing something and sometimes certain online forms, but it's enough to make you notice.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Heh. I have nothing against Firefox, and even use it occasionally, but I have to admit, that the religious zealotry exhibited by many FF users makes me LESS likely to use it. There's little I find more obnoxious about software than users who act like there's something wrong with you unless you use what they use. I don't drink the Kool-Aid for anyone.

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Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You'd turn down grape Kool-Aid?!
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Thanks for the Kool-Aid, Reverend Jim....

[a line in a song from ManOWar]....

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You'd turn down grape Kool-Aid?!


Absolutely.

Now turning down tropical punch Kool-Aid might be a bit of a challenge.

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