France was never a friend of the US
Setting the record straight
from 
JoeUser Forums
JoeUser Forums
French intellectuals like to sniff that Americans have no culture and no history. They're right partially on the latter's account, most Americans have no sense of history and it's a good thing for the French that they don't.
The French play the "We've always been friends with the Americans" on the naive American public who seem to actually believe it. A few Americans may vaguely have heard of Lafayette, the famous French soldier who came to the US to fight for American freedom. What they don't know is that he did this in violation of a specific order from the crown not to do so.
During the American revolution, the wilily Benjamin Franklin managed to convince the French monarch that helping the colonists would be a good way to tweak the British. The French were no friends of the US though, they helped but only because it was in their best interest - they wanted to weaken Britain, the "hyperpuissance" of the day.
During the peace treaty negotiations, the French were secretly trying to push Britain into having the western most territory of the US stop before the Appalachian mountains. Luckily, the US negotiators caught wind of this and negotiated with Britain directly. Of course, during the war itself, after a series of setbacks, the French pushed the Continental congress to negotiate for peace early with some parts being independent and the rest part of Britain still (if that had happened, much of the south and New York would be separate countries today). That isn't to say the French weren't helpful, but they weren't particularly helpful. They were doing what was in their best interest throughout it all.
Not long after that war, the French began stirring up trouble for the US culminating in the infamous XYZ affair where the French demanded bribes to even speak to US diplomats. The first actual significant naval clashes of the US Navy were against French ships. Things continued down hill to the point that the War of 1812 was nearly a war against France (the senate voted that down 18 to 14 -- but it was a close thing).
The Louisiana Purchase was no gift. Napoleon had planned to fortify New Orleans. But after a disaster in the Caribbean where his invasion force caught Yellow Fever, he had to give up his New World ambitions and needed cash. The US happily obliged.
The French continued to be a pain throughout the 19th century with the culmination of the US Civil War where France wanted to recognize the south's independence early on as a means to thwart the growing strength of the US and enable them to move forward on re-colonizing the new world (which they did briefly by overthrowing the government of Mexico and installing their own "emperor" -- incidentally, the French military, despite having huge advantages in numbers, lost several battles against the Mexican "army" -- foreshadowing future French military performance).
During the Civil War, the French got so bad that they were supplying money, arms, and ships to the south including allowing southern ships to refit and upgrade in French ports. The only reason the French didn't officially recognize the south is that they wanted Great Britain to do so as well as to avoid any isolation in the event the South lost. The British were not quite as keen on the South because of the issue of slavery and a general cautiousness.
The French went through a few more governments during this time. After the French got their rears handed to them by the Prussians in 1871, the French became more pliant -- for awhile.
In World War I, the French were about to lose again and in fact a massive mutiny was only put down thanks to Marshall Petain's reassurance that the Americans were coming and the war would be over soon. The Americans did come and their added weight along with Wilson's 14 points convinced the Germans to sue for peace. But unlike the relatively benign treatment the French received at German hands in 1871, the French insisted on a crushing peace settlement including requiring Germany to assume responsibility for the entire war ("war guilt"). While one might argue that the Prussians pushed pretty hard in their peace settlement in 1871, it's worth bearing in mind that the Prussians actually won that war and had essentially conquered France. France, by contrast, wasn't occupying any of Germany at this point and was only a "victor" in that they were a passenger of the British/US victory train. France's insistence on humiliating Germany helped seal the fate for another war.
In World War II, were not allies of the US until 1944. From 1941 to 1943, technically the French were neutral at best, Nazi puppets/collaborators at worst. When the US invaded French North Africa, they were met with stiff resistance from teh Vichy forces in many cases. Some of the first American ground combat deaths were at the hands of the French. In Metropolitan France, the general population was not particularly unhappy with the Vichy regime. A 1942 election between DeGaulle and Petain (leader of Vichy France) would almost certainly have put Petain on top.
After Britain and the US rescued France..again the French immediately became pains in the asses again to US and British commanders to the point where Eisenhower had to threaten to cut off French supplies if they didn't quit going off on their own.
After the war, the new menace was the Soviet Union. In response, NATO was formed. And the French did little to help with that -- at one point dropping out of NATO completely.
In the 80s, France refused to let the US use its air space to retaliate against a terrorist attack ordered by Libya. In fact, the only time French air space has been used by the US on combat missions has been to liberate France -- which ironically the recognized government of France complained about US/British violation of their airspace then too so technically, there is some consistency.
In 1991, the French, technically was part of the coalition. But even there, they refused to do very much and were generally a pain in the butt -- to the point that Bush Jr. probably was not too keen on having French "support" again such as in Afghanistan or Iraq II.
This is just a highlight reel of US/French "Relations". It's a lot easier to find obnoxious, hostile, and occasionally acts of war commited by France against the United States than to find acts of significant friendship (the Statue of Liberty being one of the few things but even that had an ulterior motive).
I don't think France is an enemy of the United States as some neo-cons do. But it has never really been much of a friend to the US. Today, the French really have nothing left. Their subsidized farmers, their poorly made manufactured equipment, and their subsidized competition of US aircraft makers along with their petty meddling in foreign policy that is designed for short term French gain (why should the French care if their actions ultimately lead to Europe's endangerment? They know the Americans will come running to protect them).
The French are many things. Friends of the United States? Not so much.
The French play the "We've always been friends with the Americans" on the naive American public who seem to actually believe it. A few Americans may vaguely have heard of Lafayette, the famous French soldier who came to the US to fight for American freedom. What they don't know is that he did this in violation of a specific order from the crown not to do so.
During the American revolution, the wilily Benjamin Franklin managed to convince the French monarch that helping the colonists would be a good way to tweak the British. The French were no friends of the US though, they helped but only because it was in their best interest - they wanted to weaken Britain, the "hyperpuissance" of the day.
During the peace treaty negotiations, the French were secretly trying to push Britain into having the western most territory of the US stop before the Appalachian mountains. Luckily, the US negotiators caught wind of this and negotiated with Britain directly. Of course, during the war itself, after a series of setbacks, the French pushed the Continental congress to negotiate for peace early with some parts being independent and the rest part of Britain still (if that had happened, much of the south and New York would be separate countries today). That isn't to say the French weren't helpful, but they weren't particularly helpful. They were doing what was in their best interest throughout it all.
Not long after that war, the French began stirring up trouble for the US culminating in the infamous XYZ affair where the French demanded bribes to even speak to US diplomats. The first actual significant naval clashes of the US Navy were against French ships. Things continued down hill to the point that the War of 1812 was nearly a war against France (the senate voted that down 18 to 14 -- but it was a close thing).
The Louisiana Purchase was no gift. Napoleon had planned to fortify New Orleans. But after a disaster in the Caribbean where his invasion force caught Yellow Fever, he had to give up his New World ambitions and needed cash. The US happily obliged.
The French continued to be a pain throughout the 19th century with the culmination of the US Civil War where France wanted to recognize the south's independence early on as a means to thwart the growing strength of the US and enable them to move forward on re-colonizing the new world (which they did briefly by overthrowing the government of Mexico and installing their own "emperor" -- incidentally, the French military, despite having huge advantages in numbers, lost several battles against the Mexican "army" -- foreshadowing future French military performance).
During the Civil War, the French got so bad that they were supplying money, arms, and ships to the south including allowing southern ships to refit and upgrade in French ports. The only reason the French didn't officially recognize the south is that they wanted Great Britain to do so as well as to avoid any isolation in the event the South lost. The British were not quite as keen on the South because of the issue of slavery and a general cautiousness.
The French went through a few more governments during this time. After the French got their rears handed to them by the Prussians in 1871, the French became more pliant -- for awhile.
In World War I, the French were about to lose again and in fact a massive mutiny was only put down thanks to Marshall Petain's reassurance that the Americans were coming and the war would be over soon. The Americans did come and their added weight along with Wilson's 14 points convinced the Germans to sue for peace. But unlike the relatively benign treatment the French received at German hands in 1871, the French insisted on a crushing peace settlement including requiring Germany to assume responsibility for the entire war ("war guilt"). While one might argue that the Prussians pushed pretty hard in their peace settlement in 1871, it's worth bearing in mind that the Prussians actually won that war and had essentially conquered France. France, by contrast, wasn't occupying any of Germany at this point and was only a "victor" in that they were a passenger of the British/US victory train. France's insistence on humiliating Germany helped seal the fate for another war.
In World War II, were not allies of the US until 1944. From 1941 to 1943, technically the French were neutral at best, Nazi puppets/collaborators at worst. When the US invaded French North Africa, they were met with stiff resistance from teh Vichy forces in many cases. Some of the first American ground combat deaths were at the hands of the French. In Metropolitan France, the general population was not particularly unhappy with the Vichy regime. A 1942 election between DeGaulle and Petain (leader of Vichy France) would almost certainly have put Petain on top.
After Britain and the US rescued France..again the French immediately became pains in the asses again to US and British commanders to the point where Eisenhower had to threaten to cut off French supplies if they didn't quit going off on their own.
After the war, the new menace was the Soviet Union. In response, NATO was formed. And the French did little to help with that -- at one point dropping out of NATO completely.
In the 80s, France refused to let the US use its air space to retaliate against a terrorist attack ordered by Libya. In fact, the only time French air space has been used by the US on combat missions has been to liberate France -- which ironically the recognized government of France complained about US/British violation of their airspace then too so technically, there is some consistency.
In 1991, the French, technically was part of the coalition. But even there, they refused to do very much and were generally a pain in the butt -- to the point that Bush Jr. probably was not too keen on having French "support" again such as in Afghanistan or Iraq II.
This is just a highlight reel of US/French "Relations". It's a lot easier to find obnoxious, hostile, and occasionally acts of war commited by France against the United States than to find acts of significant friendship (the Statue of Liberty being one of the few things but even that had an ulterior motive).
I don't think France is an enemy of the United States as some neo-cons do. But it has never really been much of a friend to the US. Today, the French really have nothing left. Their subsidized farmers, their poorly made manufactured equipment, and their subsidized competition of US aircraft makers along with their petty meddling in foreign policy that is designed for short term French gain (why should the French care if their actions ultimately lead to Europe's endangerment? They know the Americans will come running to protect them).
The French are many things. Friends of the United States? Not so much.
PolMach Forums
people defend France as an ally when clearly our history should tell us otherwise
You'll see it's pretty nice even if a bit strange : we have our own culture and language ! you won't believe it ! Some of us even refuse to simply switch to english as their only language ! and you know what ? it's the same in all european countries... incredible.
So started the ariane development...