Jafo Jafo

Rating skins

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Rating skins

A screenshot is NOT the skin

from WinCustomize Forums

It beggars the question how someone thinks they can rate a Litestep theme, or a Dx theme ....or any equivalent 'complex' skin....WB, WA, WMP, etc when all they are likely to know of it is the screenshot....as they do not DL and run the work, or even have not ever used the program. 

A screenshot is one happy snap of [as example, an LS theme...perhaps 1600 lines of hand-written code and hundreds of images taking weeks to create] ....yet some twit will go 'der...look at dat piccie...ho-hum' and consign the work to the depths of obscurity for no valid reason than their own ignorance.

Rate the skin/theme...not its 'pretty picture'.

If you are not genuinely knowledgable about a particular skinning 'field', take the initiative to opt-out of judging it at all.

You will only do the skinners and their work a gross injustice...[and raise people's ire]...;)

21,218 views 88 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The only thing wrong with this rating system is the people who use it.

No matter what you change the system to a dick-head is still a dick-head

Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
No matter what you change the system to a dick-head is still a dick-head



Absolutely!

I don't understand anybody rating something they don't use and therefore understand themselves. I only rate things I've used. And I only comment if the item appeals to me or the skinner asked for suggestions/comments and I feel I might have something to offer. I see no point otherwise.
SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just 2 more sense here...

One thing that I would like to see changed is the wording to the 5 stars. For the middle star, it is worded as "it's ok." Not a very appealing description of either a 5 or 6 point critique.

Instead of:
1. I hate it
2. I don't like it
3. It's ok
4. I like it
5. I love it

I'd personally prefer to see:
1. needs work
2. getting better
3. good
4. very good
5. excellent
(or something like that)

Granted, this suggestion is coming from a softie preschool teacher, but no matter how tough and thick skinned we all like to think we are, a gentler type of patriarchal criticism is more appropriate for it's "children" to want to progress.

"I hate it"...is insulting and offensive right from the get go.

A kinder/gentler wording presentation of a ratings system would provide less emotional pain for everyone involved.
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Jafo, can you clean up your own post in #28, please. Rules should go for admins, too. Sorry if I didn't take this thread as seriously as YOU did. I think I have personally kicked this horse to death and the problem does not just rest with the raters, it rests with the moderation and subjective initial rating, also. But I don't care to get into another battle that I can't win.
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't think the existing system needs changing, but here's someting that might be added.

Why not have it so a rating can't be applied by a user, till they have at least downloaded that skin. That won't gaurantee (sp?) the user will install the skin, but it may dissuade some from abusing the intent of rating skins. Some may think twice about rating a bunch of skins at "1" if they have to contribute to that skins' download totals too.

Just a thought. Good thread Jafo.
Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
That's not a bad idea either. Unless they download it then rate it for the hell of it. Then my idea would come into play after that.

There is a solution.. Need to download to rate -> If the person still abuses after that -> Punishment and removal of ratings
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Wizop Fuzzy Logic
Although we all have the rights to our opinion I believe as a leader, a wizop that maybe some respect should be shown towards members and I believe that by calling people (dickheads) is completely unacceptable. And even worse, administrator Jafo utters the same thing calling people dickheads. I can only say that this whole thing I find appalling and definetely will nto be visiting this thread again. But maybe the two of you should learn some respect for yourselves..we have to learn to respect ourselves before respecting others. Because if you did respect yourself you wouldnt be calling people other names. i'm sorry,but thats only my opinion. No use replying I am not visiting this thread again.
Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
No matter what the rating system is, nothing will prevent people from being human. People are going to have opinions based on their emotions. Its only human nature. Emotions such as fear will cause people to rate everything low in fear of someone else taking their rung on the ladder. Buddy systems will naturally cause people to rate work higher than you might have rated something normally. Either way, you can't police all the dynamics of human nature. You can set up a fair system and go with it.
Someone rating everything 5 stars is just as bad as someone rating everything 1 star. Do you punish both of the people?

In the end the rating will balance out and what you see is normally a pretty good idea of whether the skin is good or bad.
Since noone and everyone here is a professional critic I choose to now ignore the ratings. Human nature will always cause people (myself included) to do stupid things. Things I cannot control nor can any ratings system. Its part of displaying work for the public. Your going to get the best and worst mankind has to offer reviewing what you feel is decent work. Live with it.


Rating something based on a screenshot just seems rediculously irresponsible. Rate what you use.

Personally, I would love to have the ratings viewable. Who rates it and what they rated it. Just a wish.
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Awesome comments, Night Train.
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Good words NT. However, it still doesn't excuse people rating skins they could never comprehend the use of, or marking down the opposition to boost their own work. It may be human nature, but it is unacceptable human nature.

In answer to your other point, as many warnings have gone out to people rating too high as have to people rating too low Both are frowned upon equally.

Butch123 - you need to get out more

My own personal view on ratings, long known here, is that ratings should be attached to comments. You can then see who rated, and read why they think the rating should be so. This is how it is done on other sites I visit. It would encourage more comments being left and discourage the drive-by idiots from spamming either comments or ratings.

Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
No#.50 I think that would be a excellent Ideal: Because it would satisfy the average Joe and the professional
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My own personal view on ratings, long known here, is that ratings should be attached to comments. You can then see who rated, and read why they think the rating should be so.


I agree 100%, I look at the comments a LOT more then the rating. I want to see what people have to say about something i have spent hours and hours (and weeks in some case) workiking on. And if you are going to leave a comment, make it something constructive, not de-structive. I just think that the "great job" comments are mainly ignored. I like to see things like "the animation works great, or its nice but the animation sucks" Something like that is much more constructive to the process of growing as a skinner.

And if the comments are linked to the ratings then i can really see who thinks what about my skins. I also think that if I (as a user) could see who rated my skins and what they rated them, it might help cut down on the people that want to slam someone else, that is if they knew i could see it was THEM who was nailing my skins, they might not do it.

Who know, This is a hard subject to know the "right" answer for. I do think that if it went as follows.

1. Download to be able comment
2. Comment to be able to Rate
3. Rating is displayed in the comments title

It might help this all work out better.
Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Fuzzy and Roman, that seems to me to be the absolute best way to do it if it could be implemented, the drive-bys wouldn't happen because it takes too much time..I mean, gee, download it, try it, actually leave a comment and then rate it...hell, you could only do a few of those in an hour, pretty hard to get to be "#1 Skin Commenter" or "#1 Skin Rater", which seems to be important to some as much as they protest that they don't care about ratings
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"My own personal view on ratings, long known here, is that ratings should be attached to comments. You can then see who rated, and read why they think the rating should be so."

If a change is made, this seems very fair to me. I would love to receive feedback that will help me improve my skills (which can always use improvement as far as I am concerned).

Great idea, Fuzzy.
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Screen Shot (1-9)
Usability (1-9)
Appearance (1-9)

Unless you're rating an upload to the SceenShot library, the screenshot shouldn't enter into the rating mix. You're supposed to rating the skin. Replace that entry with ORIGINALITY, and you have a good guide for rating.

Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I agree with some Roman's (#50) and Weaksid's (#56) suggestions, and want to add something - number of downloads should be a part of the rating (something like average number of downloads per week), appearance, usability and some specific depending on type of skin as well but not screenshot. Rating the screenshot has NOTHING to do with rating the skin. It should just help skinners to present it in the best possible way (if they want to do so, I usually get bored when I make a screenshot ). For the end, just to add some words to #53 post - it is offensive "I hate it". It's someone's insulting opinion and if that was so bad, it wouldn't pass through moderation.
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
number of downloads should be a part of the rating (something like average number of downloads per week


I agree. I believe that # of downloads should somehow effect the rating. I have some stuff rated a 4 that got twice the number of downloads as something rated a 7. This may have to do with the initial subjective rating, and then just a few people rating after that. But if it could, then, get percentage points for downloads it would be a very fair representation of how much the public likes it.
Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Choice of language was intended as an indicator of abject frustration that 'some people' are so stupid they believe they are not doing anything 'wrong'.

Nay...

Correction...they voice publicly they do not believe they are doing anything wrong.  Privately they have an agenda....whether it is to be 'number one rater' or to usurp the status of their competition.... whatever,  It does not, has not gone unnoticed.

If they do not 'see' the error of their ways and 'get it right' it can be done FOR them....through removal of the ability to rate....

 

Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Firstly, why not make it possible to only be able to rate a skin if you download it first.

Secondly, as jafo said,how can anyone rate a skin if they themselves don't know how to create one. By this, I mean they would not know how much work and effort has gone into creating it in the first place and it is impossible to judge a skin by just looking at a screenshot.

Thirdly, everyone's taste is different. If all users had the same tastes it would be very boring!

A final thought - what would be the outcome if we did not have a rating system? It would stop all the fuss and everyone would be equal! If you like it - download it. If you don't like it - don't download it.

OK - When's the next contest ?
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
OK - When's the next contest


I'm ready to watch a "Skin Down". I also would be in favor of no ratings, but it is what it is, and I will deal with it the way it is. If I don't like it, I'm free to leave just like anyone else.

mmm ...think I'll stay and continue to enjoy the great skins and great folks here.
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Firstly, why not make it possible to only be able to rate a skin if you download it first.


Probably a good Idea, which I can tie into the second point

As far as not knowing how to create a skin... I don't know how to fly a plane, but I know If I had a good flight. I couldnt tell you about the people on other planes, but my own flight? yeah, I was there, it was smooth, on time, etc. As long as I tried it, I am competent enough to decide if I like it.

I still don't understand why ratings are anonymous adj. : Having no distinctive character or recognition factor
By that definition I would say they don't merit any attention at all. And yet they get alot of it here. And I well understand why. ( side note: The ratings have been kind to me. I don't think I have ever personally been slammed, though I have my doubts about one skin I made. Loads of great comments and a low rating. ) You work hard at something, share it for free, and see some obscure number attached to it. What does it mean? Does everyone think it's a 6? Or does evryone think it's a 2 and one chap was nice enough to give me a 9? Or was it a 9 and one user really didnt like it? Or did I just get hit by a "drive-by" rater?

If I saw in my comments
"Hey, nice skin but..." RATING: 6
"Best skin ever made!" RATING: 10
"Great Job..." RATING: 7
"My mother could..." RATING: 1
"This is pretty nice" RATING: 6
"Not sure I like..." Rating: 4


Now things make a little sense. My skin is pretty good. 6 maybe 7. A few things become obvious, to everyone. The guy whose mother skins better than me should be banned. My skin is NOT the "best skin ever" although one devoted ingui fan thinks so
One user really didn't care for the skin in whole or in part. I have a 4 and a comment to tell me how to improve that rating in the future. BTW - Do I hunt that user down and stalk him/her on the boards and rate any of their submissions low in retribution? A nasty email? One forward to an admin, Like I said, becomes kinda obvious and I'd be banned with the guy who threw me a one.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top


how can anyone rate a skin if they themselves don't know how to create one?

Well, I don't know how to create one yet, but I certainly have downloaded and used pretty much every WB and tons of Visual styles plus rainys and everything else here and other places, and it becomes pretty obvious if i skin is well made, regardless of if I personally like the look of it. Sure, tons of people can't tell, they go for the looks and flash of a skin and that is all they care about...which is fine, but the ratings don't differentiate between looks and great designing, so even if people have to download it to rate it, it's still gonna be in the hands of alot of people who don't know and aren't really interested in the talent it takes to make a real quality skin if they don't like how it looks with their favorite band's wall..or whatever it may be.
But downloading first to make comment and rating should certainly weed out a lot of the garbage due to the extra effort to screw with someone's ratings and will, I think, make the comments that are given more helpful to the skinners as to what people actually think
Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top

how can anyone rate a skin if they themselves don't know how to create one?

Actually...the issue is 'how can anyone rate a skin if they themselves have never used a skin?'

Makes for a far clearer absurdity, don't you think?....

Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I rate only the skins I use, gotta try them first to be able to rate them!But just because I'm not technically knowledgable about a skins coding doesnt mean I cant rate a skin ! I know what skins I like and what skins work good for me. Alot of really good and upcoming skinners have been chased away from WC because of this rating system its seems the newer skinners think the long time skinners rate them low,which i can understand the long time skinners have more knowledge about skinning,So all in all I think the rating system stinks if you want to know how good your skin is check out the comments 90% of the time you'll get more info from them than the ratings!