The Premium skins poll - (week of 7/14)

Yes, I think there should have been a couple more choices, plus better wording on the 2 that are up.

Like get very high quality content. If the people that would be uploading premium skins I'am sure are not putting lower quality work on WC and only high quality work to sell. I'am sure both would be high quality. If not then why download the free ones by that person.

Just my 2 cents. Hope I made sense.

But to be fair some of the premium skins aren't good. The poll is a little too black and white.
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Well I think is a rather simple question which breaks down to two simple answers
Either you thinks premium skins IS and good idea or you DONT.
Authors already share their skins for free putting all of their efforts in their work, but as far a quality skins go, well that’s a matter of opinion but I presume it will be left up to moderation to determine which skins are crafted with enough quality, details and functionality to be put up for sale.

But to be fair some of the premium skins aren't good.

Again, it is all a matter of opinion and choice. Free skins are always going to be here, it is up to the users to choose if they want to purchase a premium skin or not.

My 2 cents

or maybe we need choices like:

Do you think Citizens should be able to offer premium suites >

I'll take a stab at that one latin.. No, I absolutely do not think that someone who just signs up for a membership to the site (a citizen) should be able to sell themes here. I think that the folks at SD are dead on when they say that the right to offer premium content should be reserved for those people who have shown that they are part of the skinning community first and foremost before they try and profit from it. If a citizen wants to offer premium content web hosting is cheap, and it's very easy to setup a paypal account to accept payments..

It's more the answers I dont agree with. "Yes, I like being able to support skinners and get very high quality content".

As seen, paying for something doesn't guarantee nor indicate quality or the continual production of it. Recently skins by, for example, brewman and his DogmaX I feel would be worthy of purchase and have proven far more usable than the majority of recent Premium skins.

As a whole, Premium "Suites" when put together correctly and include icons, skins et al are a good idea and worth the money. I have purchased some from Pixtudio before.

But as a whole based on the general style of most premium suites they do not suite 'my own' taste. For example most icons in the Premium packages are excellent and I'd use but not the skins they come with. I would like a seperate option to just purchase the icons in some instances.

A very understandable point Sept1mus, but you must keep in mind that the authors of these skins make them for their personal use and/or taste and post them up for sharing or sale. It is up to the user to choose if it's appealing enough to purchase.
Same order applies to the suites. The author puts together a suite based on his style and taste while taking under consideration what generally catches the public's attention. The only way an author will create a 'perfect' theme suitable for your taste, is by contract.
Most premium suites go for about $10.00 USD. To sell the IconPack separetely, it will be around $9.00 USD. So why break up the package?

Now, in regards to the "Yes, I like being able to support skinners and get very high quality content" answer (and this is my oppinion as a skinner) When creating a skin to share most skinners will make something functional and generally appealing to the public, but when creating a skin for sales purpose, a lot more work in the details and funtions will go into the skin. Also the skin will be carefully tested to ensure that it works perfect as opposed to the free sharing version where if it has an error the author will fix it (whenever) and update it (whenever)

I don't see the issue here. It's worth a try. Frogboy said that only qualified skinners will be able to post their work for sale. Someone that has a master level has been around a long long time and has earned the respect of everyone that is into customizing. Suppose a "Master skinner" puts up his/ her skins for sale. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Plain and simple. The same quality of skins will still be available with a WC subscription. There will always be new people coming and going striving to reach the "Master level". I mean that's what it is all about isn't it? Trying to create "that masterpiece". One man's masterpiece is another man's trash. It works in the reverse also. Brewman, Apoc 67, Tiggz, etc. are all journeyman and they continue to pump out top notch work. Someday when the skinning gods bless them with the "master" level there will people to fill their spots. However, I think it is still important for anyone that gets to the master level to not forget about all the citizens that downloaded their work and gave them the confidence to get better. Even a master still needs to do free stuff.

BTW, one of the reasons we would only sell the content of skinners who have made it to Master (or possibly Journeyman access) is because so much of the premium suite market is supported by users who recognize the contribution of those authors.

People support people like Mormegil because he's made probably a hundred megabytes of free icons over the years for people.

That is the most clear and logical explanation of how the selling of premium skins will be handled.
NT you mention a very good thing to keep in mind. For the past year and a half that I've been here on WC and contributing to the skinning community, I have always seen (and admire) top notch authors such as Mormegil, Pixtudio, TSF, Adni (just to name a few) for sharing their work for free aside from the work they put up for sale. Something we all need to learn and not forget.

I for one am astounded at the number of people who have voted, "2- No, skins and themes should always be free and stay that way."

Proficient skinners most definately deserve some 'payback' for their hard work, and no doubt this will give up-and-coming skinners (like myself) more incentive to work harder, and produce higher quality skins, so that they might attain the honorable rank of 'Master.'


'Skins should always be free.'

I think not. The very 'free-ness' of the free skins is what drives many of the 'greats' to disappear... Skinning takes time...lots of it. And when that time takes away from 'real-life' without any real, tangible, 'return'...That can be quite a 'turn off.'

Sure, they can set up their own site and sell skins from there, but what kind of traffic/exposure will they get? Definately not the same kind they would get here, at the most popular skin site on the 'net.

Remember, Masters are the cream of the crop, the best of the best. And only they will be able to sell their wares...

Good point EH.
This is a clear case of "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free"
I too am amazed at the numbers on the 'Skins should always be free' answer. These are obviously the group of people that have no consideration for the time and effort put into making these skins. Not to mention the money spent on graphic programs and I'm willing to bet that most of those that voted have no design skills nor have the sligthest clue of what is involved on the creation of a skin.
I cant help but wonder what they will do if all skinners stop skinning for free.
OH, the horror!!!





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It's a fair and reasonable bet that most, if not all skinners would be voting 'Yes', while the majority of non-skinners would vote 'No'.

A poll such as this can cause inaccuracies through 'vested interests'....[skinners are more likely to respond to something which potentially affects their income]....and through physical numbers....[more people do not skin - but use them than those who both make and use them].

The only way to get a better interpretation/understanding of the demographics involved is to set the poll to 4 sections.....skinners for 'yes'....skinners for 'no'....non-skinners for 'yes'....non-skinners for 'no'.

It's not discriminatory, just explanatory....

#12 by Scribe Apocalypse_67 - 7/15/2004 8:00:30 PM I cant help but wonder what they will do if all skinners stop skinning for free. OH, the horror!!!

That'll be the day I set my viewing/rate level to 9 or 10 or just not attend due to crap recolours.

It sickens me to this day how to many people have no respect for quality and time, I just find it not worth the time anymore to release stuff because people expect everything for free and even when it is free they ask for more stuff like "is that all".

I was led to believe if the quality was so outstanding people would pay for it no matter what. But I guess I was wrong FREE is more important than quality so it seem's. Then they bitch about it on forums of where is quality designs and they wonder why... hmmmmmmmm hard to figure out isn't it.

These are obviously the group of people that have no consideration for the time and effort put into making these skins.

I think it's more 'ignorance' of the work involved, rather than 'I dont give a rip' (no pun intended)...
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Even though I've already posted, I do support the concept of premium skins.You spend 1-2 months doing an entire suite of skins plus all the expense in programs, it would be nice if the skinner (or their spouse) could recoop some of the investment.

Maybe when people read the second question they got afraid it was an either/or situation. 

I know of a number of skinners who could make a living selling premium suites. You'd have to make two per quarter to do it but you could do it.

I know of a number of skinners who could make a living selling premium suites.

No doubt about it. Treetog does that, no?

It's a method of growth, for all sides. The masters will want to make as much money as they can (otherwise whats the point of making a premium skin) so expect GUIO style or better quality and attention to detail, the non-masters will want to get up to master so they too can reap the benefits, they will want to impress, so they try harder. The user gets a ton more premium skins to choose from, a store full of skins from the masters. WinCustomize becomes the only worth-while marketplace for skinners to show their stuff. What's the downside to this again?

Wow....that would be awesome!

I have a poll question for everyone.
My poll has two ions to choose from.

Poll question: Do you think software developers should charge for their software?

1- Yes, I like being able to support software developers and get very high quality software.

2- No, software should always be free and stay that way.
-
Note that not all software that you pay for is high quality software,At least not by my definition.




[Message Edited]

I will try this again.
I have a poll question for everyone.

Poll question: Do you think software developers should charge for their software?

1- Yes, I like being able to support software developers and get very high quality software.

2- No, software should always be free and stay that way.
-
Note that not all software that you pay for is high quality software,At least not by my definition.

[Message Edited]

I was wondering why about the number of people responding to number 2...the free option. I'd have to say, with a lot of people having the general feeling that the internet is free, free downloads, free email, free chat, free games, etc., having as many people Select number 1 as have, is pretty impressive and supportive.

Here's my take on premium skins and whatnot. Personally I think all skins should be free, people have to pay for the software to use the skins so why ask them to spend more.

However, ideally people would donate to skin authors. What seems to be outlooked is that a large group of people are quite young, and really can't spare 10 dollars or don't have a credit card and the such, they shouldn't be alienated.

But it really is quite depressing how few people donate to support ANYTHING when it's not related to some sort of nudity (If you've used the internet for over 10 minutes in the past year im sure you've noticed this). So there are countless authors out there spending at times hundreds of hours on skins and not getting anything for it. So as an author it is quite easy to want premium skins to become more prevalent, however we have to ask what this will do to the skinning community. I personally feel it would destroy it.

What it would come down to is making things elitest, to the point where the studios who've had the most success with premium skins would probably form a good 70-80% of the skins bought. Putting that aside, imagine what it would do to the art of skinning. While it may be more popular today than it was 3 or 4 years ago, skinning seems to have lost the bulk of it's creativity. Most seem to be abandoning the artistic side of skinning for high download counts, imagine how much this would worsen once money is involved.

Though in retrospect, one could ask who cares if a community that doesn't support its authors out of goodwill is destroyed. Which tends to be my sentiment. So while I believe all skins should be free, I find myself in a position where I almost feel forced to make premium skins, concidering I MAY be working on one at the moment (depends how other projects of mine pan out).

I feel that an author doing commissioned work, as SkinStudio does, is a better way of earning an income that charging the users. And it does seem to force a degree of creativity as a company paying for a promotional skin wants it to stand out.

And now there comes the point of who should be able to sell premium skins. If it's restricted to master, there may be a slew of people releasing half-assed works in order to raise level. The level a person is doesn't reflect the quality of their work or their ability as an author, that quality is what premium skins should be all about.