Coming back: GC III 3.7 is a real shock, unfun?

from GalCiv3 Forums

I've been off fixated on World of Warships for 2.5 years.  I decided to try GCIII again, since I've enjoyed GC since the OS/2 days.  My install was still at 2.23 (?) and I played the Tutorial to get used to the UI again, then a Milky Way campaign on Normal.  Easy win.

So I let Steam update to the current version, 3.7, and am running the Tutorial again.  What a shock!  Compared with the previous version, the Terran position has been nerfed into the ground.  23 turns to build the first Factory?!?  Population capped at 3, even with a Farm??  New "Assist" buildings that are too expensive to build?

Meanwhile running a consistent deficit with no apparent means to control it as in GC2?

Resources in the (very small) visible galaxy reduced to a little Duranthium, Elerium, and Antimatter that isn't useful; totally missing Thulium that might be now, through the new terraforming?  SB mining yields reduced by 90%!?!  Relics that provide a small fraction of a boost...

The Iconian is friendly enough, as always, but has influence so great that it simply swamps any attempt at expansion.  My new planet lasted all of two turns, defecting without warning.  It gives you some nice techs that serve to mask the fact that your research abilities are a bad joke.

75 turns in and as best I can tell, my hope of success is that that Drenghi has been nerfed even worse, and we might have a successful battle sometime before I die of old age.

I'm seriously considering going back to GC II.  I still have an unpublished variant that should be a lot of fun.

 

P.S. Was that the shortest Summer Sale on record?  I was going to buy something (more fool me) but the sale seems to be over...

 

126,596 views 24 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

100 turns in.  I can finally build military ships, but despite two Farms my population won't increase above 3.  WTF?? 

There are no available Starbase output upgrades save defense.  SBs are basically stepping stones into the larger(?) universe? otherwise worthless.  I could use another Trade license, but that takes research, which, being pitiful, will be a while.

Planet is full.  Tax at 39% and still running a larger deficit than ever.  Without alien gifts I would be bankrupt.

 

This is supposed to give me the feeling that I might be successful in a real game?  If I had a little more snootful I might laugh.  Stardock, what have you done?

 

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I think that there need to be bigger populations. I also agree that the factories need to be more. Welcome back.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Farms produce food, Food allows you to build Cities which in turn increase Population :)

As to the rest, play without Retribution (its sucks b****, takes the game in a direction most old school players hate), the manual is upto date as far as Intrigue and worth a read, theres is a Lets Play series on youtube by Christopher Holmes, it is well wroth a watch.

 

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 1

Stardock, what have you done?
End of DMF's quote

I think they wanted to push on to GC4 so decided to kill the game and launch Retribution.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I'm not playing Retribution.  I don't even have Mercenaries.

Cities aren't offered on the build menu (yes, I researched them).  Comments have led me to believe that one needs a certain population to make use of them.  Why can't I build Cities?

It dawned on me that Starbases aren't the "need a constructor to upgrade" style.  I wonder if the "free" builds increase maintenance costs?

 

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 5

It dawned on me that Starbases aren't the "need a constructor to upgrade" style. I wonder if the "free" builds increase maintenance costs?
End of DMF's quote

Some do, some do not.

Quoting DMF, reply 5

Comments have led me to believe that one needs a certain population to make use of them. Why can't I build Cities?
End of DMF's quote

Farms for food, food for Cities, that is the current chain. Albiet a bit broken depending on map settings, sometimes you can end up with very little food in the whole galaxy. And makes no sense what so ever, you have 5+ Billion ppl on your home planet that do not require feeding of any kind......but a city requires 4 food for 3 population.....its messed up. (Its more tha naming of things that make it all sound fk'd up tbh)

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 6

Farms for food, food for Cities, that is the current chain. Albiet a bit broken depending on map settings,
End of Horemvore's quote
Given how complex the game already is, and how hard for newcomers to get into the game, and how hard of a task the balancing has become with so many DLCs, I really don't get why SD insists on making key elements of the game this complex! What is wrong with just using food as a global resource and be done with it?

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It is Global, but, farms mostly, depend on Arable Land, which can be scarce depending on map settings which then leave you with just the Hydroponic Farm that gives 1 food, need 4 per City....you see where this is going.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

A City has suddenly shown up on my build menu, but since the planet is full, what should I destroy to make room?  Or is it even worth building now, since it appears that I can't grow, being food limited?

  • Capital adjacent to a Market.
  • Three Xeno Factories clustered around a Space Elevator.
  • Computer on a +2 tile adjacent to a Basic Lab. (Also adding +1 to a Factory)
  • Isolated Xeno Farm
  • Xeno Farm adjacent to a Space Port.

There are also two Economic SBs in range.

Social/Ship 12.7/8.6.  Research 10.5.

Deficit -5.7/week.

I have yet to see the purpose in Cities.  IMO, they are one of additions to the game that exist just to use up tiles.

 

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 9

I have yet to see the purpose in Cities. IMO, they are one of additions to the game that exist just to use up tiles.
End of DMF's quote

Completely wrong, Cities add to Population which adds to Raw Production which in turn adds to Research, Wealth and Construction in a ratio of 1RP = 1R/1W/1C.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 10
Completely wrong, Cities add to Population which adds to Raw Production which in turn adds to Research, Wealth and Construction in a ratio of 1RP = 1R/1W/1C.
End of Horemvore's quote

Strange that 2.33 increases Population, tracking Food, which increases Raw Production.  Yet 2.33 has no Cities.  In other words, Cities add nothing functional to the base game.  They just occupy a tile. 

And, as it turns out, they eat Duranthium and Promethion.  Since there is no Promethion in the Tutorial, there is no way to build a City, so "Never Mind".

 

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 2

Welcome back.
End of admiralWillyWilber's quote

Thanks, Admiral.  It's nice to see some old familiar faces.


75 turns in and as best I can tell, my hope of success is that that Drenghi has been nerfed even worse, and we might have a successful battle sometime before I die of old age.
End of quote

Turn 260 or thereabouts.  I pulled in all my expansion, destroyed the Precipice class 15 world (not that I needed to), stopped trying to develop the Refuge world, killed all the maintenance suck until I was in the black, and went full Research.  Need logistics, some range, and decent weapons and defenses.  At least Small and preferably Medium hulls. 

Sent some pitiful ships with a starbase to extend range and probed the Drenghi world.  Guess what?  The ugly guy has been nerfed into the ground, too.  No ship upgrades, no mining, a few asteroids and economic SBs.  He didn't even go after my probes.  The Drenghin governor in 2.33 Tutorial would have had him shot and taken over the entire north. 

Knowing what his ships looked like, I designed some new ones and went full military production.  Because the Iconian craven freaks out whenever he sees one of my starbases, I bought one of his.  I don't quite have the firepower yet, but this thing is in the bag. 

Some "tutorial".  I guess it served its purpose, though.

 

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 11

And, as it turns out, they eat Duranthium and Promethion. Since there is no Promethion in the Tutorial, there is no way to build a City, so "Never Mind".
End of DMF's quote

You did not mention you were playing Synthetic. Food is irrelavant for them :). And yes cities require other resources for synths. Same buff thou (population) if you do not recive it,once your in a game where your able to build said cities then I'd post a bug report. (Not having Promethion may well be a bug in the campaign/tutorial anyways?)

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

As far as I understand your problem is economics. If you are synthetics they are projects.

Reply #15 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 8

It is Global, but, farms mostly, depend on Arable Land, which can be scarce depending on map settings which then leave you with just the Hydroponic Farm that gives 1 food, need 4 per City....you see where this is going.
End of Horemvore's quote
I see that it is going slightly in the direction of Synthetic races who require manufacturing, administrators and ship building (for constructors) as well as decent tech (and maybe ideology traits) to obtain sufficient amounts of Durantium and Prometium.  As long as you don't have all of this you're stuck with your starting population of 5B pop.

I'm not complaining, I know how to make this work by now. But it seems that with regard to pop growth at least was consistent in making it ludicrously hard to understand what is required and make it work. And all that with minimal documentation and help, but plenty of balancing issues and bugs.

They'd better spend some time making the game mechanics consistent and user friendly instead of adding llayer uppon layer of complexity with every DLC without regard to people who won't buy them.

Reply #16 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 13

You did not mention you were playing Synthetic.
End of Horemvore's quote

I'm playing Terran.  I don't believe there's an option in the Tutorial.  A City (at least in this scenario) requires 3 Duranthium and 5 Promethion.  It would be nice to learn that they backed off from that in other scenarios and the sandbox.

 

Reply #17 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 16

I'm playing Terran. I don't believe there's an option in the Tutorial. A City (at least in this scenario) requires 3 Duranthium and 5 Promethion. It would be nice to learn that they backed off from that in other scenarios and the sandbox.
End of DMF's quote

That is a bug, needs reporting. Humans require food for Cities synths require Durantium and Promethion.

Reply #18 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 17

That is a bug, needs reporting. Humans require food for Cities synths require Durantium and Promethion.
End of Horemvore's quote

AH!  Okay.  Remind me the best way to report a bug?  Just post in Support?

(This and the Manual link are two bugs to report.)

 

Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top

Hi,

Yes Retribution is different and population is a real problem at the start but you can do various things to ameliorate this.

One is to go for Benevolent in which case you can get a free colony ship in the top line. You can use this to boost your population on your home planet and then send it on to do its primary task of colonising a new planet.  Two steps further into the top line Abundant gives you 3 pop on all new planets which means that if necc you can rush a shipyard and  then a minimal colony ship to colonise a nearby planet without running into the problem that a colony ship takes  a minimum of 1G and you need an excess of 1G (ie 2G if just one host) to launch it. 

I always (unless synthetic) go for Tyron's destiny which is a little way into the tech tree 

Discovery -> Colonial Administration -> Colonial Settlements   -> Planetology 

and gives you another free colony ship to rebuild your home planet's population after sending other colony ships off.

As to the economy I normally stay friendly with all as much as poss in the opening and sell them techs (obviously the least useful possible) to keep the coffers ticking over. I should say though that I disable tech brokering which certainly makes it an easier or perhaps less difficult game than otherwise. 

I play at Genius  on gigantic maps (much smaller than they used to be under the latest definitions) with about a dozen opponents which gives me some room in the opening and abandon fairly soon if it looks a total pain which is maybe 1/2 the time or a little more often. 

Once you get a decent opening tho' it's normally not too bad and a game with one of the stronger civs - especially the Ancient ones  which are incredibly powerful research wise once you get going -  should last between about 150 and 200 moves if you conquer everybody who's really disagreeable and then avoid the potentially rather tedious endgame by taking a tech victory.

Cheers,

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #20 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting lycan371, reply 19

One is to go for Benevolent in which case you can get a free colony ship in the top line.
End of lycan371's quote
I totally agree with this advice. I've started my current game like this, and the +2B pop for every new colony are a huge help! I used to start with the pragmatic trait that gives three constructors because at the start of the game, these are also extremely useful. But if you pick that before getting to the +2B pop, it means you're wasting up to 8B free pop until you've gathered enough ideology points! So don't waste ideology points anywhere else until you have it.

Reply #21 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DMF, reply 11


Quoting Horemvore,
reply 10
Completely wrong, Cities add to Population which adds to Raw Production which in turn adds to Research, Wealth and Construction in a ratio of 1RP = 1R/1W/1C.


Strange that 2.33 increases Population, tracking Food, which increases Raw Production.  Yet 2.33 has no Cities.  In other words, Cities add nothing functional to the base game.  They just occupy a tile.

End of DMF's quote

I've changed my mind on Cities.  By requiring Resources, Cities can serve to throttle population growth, which has been excessive in the mid-game since GC2. 

However, having found 'High Output Mines' tech, I'm not sure how effective they will be at that.  (Interesting that no AI has researched that tech in my game(s).)  And by drawing on civ-wide resources, high populations can appear even on isolated barren or inhospitable worlds.  While I understand their purpose now, the jury is still out.

 

 

Reply #22 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 3

Farms produce food, Food allows you to build Cities which in turn increase Population :)

As to the rest, play without Retribution (its sucks b****, takes the game in a direction most old school players hate), the manual is upto date as far as Intrigue and worth a read, theres is a Lets Play series on youtube by Christopher Holmes, it is well wroth a watch.

 
End of Horemvore's quote

Horem, if you don't mind, may you enlighten me how Retribution is bad? I don't have it and about to come back to GC3 to check thing out. I would like to know what went wrong with that DLC.

Reply #23 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Artifacts, after the initial "cool new stuff" wears off, you realise they kill the game, some are so OP they act like I win buttons, others you just do not see the point of, all this would not be so bad if they were not so abundant, if you get a 1 for every 3 planets your having a bad day. The dumbing of the Tech tree is a 50/50, I can see why it was done, I also understand why other changes were made to it, alas some of the links and progressions simple make no sense. Feels half hearted tbh and that come across while playing. Hypergates, well, highways, they are simply that massive disapointment (no disrespct but I feel this was just copied from 2 other popular space games and was not needed in the manner they chose). This is space.....not Earth. (Hated this in both them other games too btw)

Reply #24 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Horemvore, reply 23

Artifacts, after the initial "cool new stuff" wears off, you realise they kill the game, some are so OP they act like I win buttons, others you just do not see the point of, all this would not be so bad if they were not so abundant, if you get a 1 for every 3 planets your having a bad day. The dumbing of the Tech tree is a 50/50, I can see why it was done, I also understand why other changes were made to it, alas some of the links and progressions simple make no sense. Feels half hearted tbh and that come across while playing. Hypergates, well, highways, they are simply that massive disapointment (no disrespct but I feel this was just copied from 2 other popular space games and was not needed in the manner they chose). This is space.....not Earth. (Hated this in both them other games too btw)
End of Horemvore's quote

I looked up some more about Retribution after my comment and oh lord, the 10k influences artifact is just bonker. It basically no go/free annex zone. If you have one, you just colonize any planet nearby the enemy and bam, you annex an entire cluster of them. Some are nice and modest but some just off the rail. Hypergate is a space highway. I thought it would work like a teleporter from A to B. Saw the new tech tree. I can't put my finger on it but it feel odd. I guess the only thing I like is they remove that requirement tech before Planetary Invasion that do nothing and just being a step to get the actual invasion stuff. Also, is it just me or the influences become much stronger than before?