feline feline

any advice on tracking down a winXP crash problem?

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any advice on tracking down a winXP crash problem?

from WinCustomize Forums
i am on the verge of going into hibernation, and stopping using my computer. that, or a total reformat.

my home machine (winXP pro) has two types of crash. both happen at complete random, and i can find no pattern or cause for these crashes.

in type 1 the machine experiences a hard lock. the screen just freezes, the mouse stops working, and the keyboard caps lock light no longer changes. the only option at this point is a hard reset >

in type 2 the machine spontaneously reboots.

both have happened to me already today.

now for the details:
i have run anti-virus and spyware checks, and found nothing.
i have a nvidia gforce2 MX 64meg graphics card, with the 40.72 drivers. these are not the most recent, but they are the most recent i have found where DVD playback still works.

i thought i saw a brief flash of blue when the machine spontaneously rebooted today, so it occurred to me i may have had a blue screen of death. so, i have just turned off the "automatically restart" option in system settings for dealing with a system failure. if i do get a blue screen of death, maybe it will give me some clues as to the possible root of the problem.

the only pattern i can provide is that the spontaneous reboots only happen when i am off line (56k modem, dial up connection) and the hard locks only happen when i am online.

i have been unable to find anything even close to helpful in the system event logs

i thought i had a pattern to the online hard locks, in that for every one of them microsoft messenger (the one bundled into winXP, msmsgs.exe) was always running. one night i had 3 hard locks in 3 hours with this program running *sob*

however, earlier tonight, online again, i had another hard lock without this program running.

i am under the impression that no application should be able to do this to my machine. since i have no evidence there is a hardware problem (and i don't really have the spending money to buy a whole new PC on the off chance) a driver problem seems possible. however, this doesn't get me very far.

knowing in the back of your mind that at any moment any and all work i am doing, and any conversations i am having, can be snatched away from me with no cause or notice, this is really starting to get to me. it is taking the fun out of using my computer



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30,046 views 126 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
yrag - feline...forget the Win98 boot disk...go into bios and change 1st boot device to CD rom. After XP installs and starts to re-boot, go into bios and change 1st device back to HDD.


ah, i never thought of that. i grew up in the era of floppy boot disks

however, no boot disks were used. the machine has win98 on drive C, so the winXP CD auto plays in winXP, and takes over from there. select an advanced install, and it lets you play about with the partitions on the way through, which is what i did.

on the modem front, i should know in a few hours, once i get home and run the experiments with the two machines.



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Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ah, okay, it is there for a reason.



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The Political Machine 2024
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
am not sure what you mean about not using NTFS. winXP is using NTFS.


XP setup gives you the option to use either Fat32 or NTFS...make sure your format is jiving with your install.......

/me thinks we should take up a collection, come to your house and fix this damn machine



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Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i had a similar problem to you, it turned out that when XP crashes any USB devices all get jumbled up when the computer re-sets and the more your system crashes the worse the problem becomes.try unplugging all usb devices re-start your machine and then plug them back in starting with any hubs one at a time.i know it sounds a bit strange but i look after 4 seperate systems and have had the same on all of them at some point. hope it helps



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Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
boot from a system diagnostics disk and remove hardware from the picture...

I did some searches for freeware burn in/diagnostics applications and didn't see anything I considered worth downloading. But, with most Tech books on trouble shooting/ rebuilding, upgrading PC's there is a CD and it should have PC Probe or some such on it.

There is the value added feature of lock step trouble shooting so you do not get lost in the mix of possibilities...

Remove hardware from equations, then go onto hardware drives and configuration inside windows, then specific applications, and so on....

Your sure that you click the advanced setting for your POP/SMTP setup in OE and clicked *use same as POP3 Connection* (or some such)? It is on the second page of the configuration under advanced...

Also on an external modem you are using the Comport on the mother board. With the internal you need to disable the comport on the motherboard that the Internal Modem is using in Windows - Control Panel - System - Hardware - Modems... Probably com3,irq4, they do not always play nice with two parts of hardware claiming to be comport.


just some thoughts...
Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
and we have an initial result in. i have placed my external modem on my old machine, and i can:
* log into wincustomize
* send email
* post to the board i mentioned a few posts ago

so, i think it is safe to say there is nothing wrong with my external modem.

/me has reached a conclusion
if my main computer was made out of chocolate, it would be more reliable, stable, and usable. even allowing for the fact that people would keep on eating bits of it *sigh*

right, now off to finish reorganising my room so i can get in it. i had to clear the desk to swap machines around. so, once that is done, i will answer the other points here.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
yrag thinks we should take up a collection, come to your house and fix this damn machine


hehe, it is pretty much at that point now. the offending machine is now in a different room, not plugged in, waiting for the weekend when i will have enough time to run some diagnostics programs on it. hopefully they will give me some clues as to what is going on here.


nightprowler - i had a similar problem to you, it turned out that when XP crashes any USB devices all get jumbled up when the computer re-sets and the more your system crashes the worse the problem becomes.


interesting, and not all that reassuring! i don't think this is effecting me though. my motherboard has 2 USB ports, and there are no hubs connected to the machine.

one USB port is connected to my mouse, and the other has a cable coming out of it, which my web cam gets plugged into when i am using it. however, most of the time the web cam is not actually plugged in.


IPlural - boot from a system diagnostics disk and remove hardware from the picture...


going there now. however, given that the email and web problems are all showing up on a clean install of winXP, i think hardware is now the most likely explanation.


IPlural - Your sure that you click the advanced setting for your POP/SMTP setup in OE and clicked *use same as POP3 Connection* (or some such)? It is on the second page of the configuration under advanced...


not 100% sure. but then i am not that sure of many things about my main computer now *sigh*

i have checked the settings many times over, and i have found that i can send email from my old machine even when the email password is wrong

it only needs the correct password to receive email. so, since i have set up both machines the same way, i am as sure as i can be at this time that the main machines email settings are correct, and it still doesn't work.


IPlural - Also on an external modem you are using the Comport on the mother board. With the internal you need to disable the comport on the motherboard that the Internal Modem is using in Windows - Control Panel - System - Hardware - Modems... Probably com3,irq4, they do not always play nice with two parts of hardware claiming to be comport.


fair points. however, i actually opened up the case and took out the internal (PCI, unknown device since winXP doesn't natively support it) modem a few weeks back to help remove exactly these sort of concerns as a possible variable.

the internet problems do suggest to me that there may be a motherboard COM port problem. however, the internet seemed fine (apart from the insane instability) before the format, so why it should brake after the format..... *sigh*


IPlural - just some thoughts...


at this time, and any all helpful thoughts are welcome. just try to be understanding if i seem rather upset / stressed / snappy at times. this isn't quite going to my plan.



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Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Not using NTFS as file system ?


i never have used NTFS and i have never had a problem.
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Have you updated any drivers lately? My XP crashed 2 weeks ago after a Windows Intel Graphic Driver update. First the CD & Floppy drives wouldn't work, then the key board locked up. After booting up in safe mode I got the Blue Screen of Death! It took a complete reinstall with Dell Tech to get it back.
Good Luck!
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Dump the modem... That seems to be the common denominator.
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
feline, no problem, I know from personal experience how frustrating it can get.

besides you have enough being thrown at you all at one time. good luck with it

If all else fails, I would/do suggest a lock step approach.

remove hardware after post, booting into diagnostics and test, all works out fine.

boot into windows with the creation of a boot.log, check the log for anything odd, might find the problem there.

once in windows, check known psychical hardware resources as set on the card/motherboard to make sure Windows plug and play didn't decide to change something it should have left alone, set either Windows device resources to reflect actual hardware resources or vise versa as needed.

Check drivers for known issues.

check software configuration.

when finished and system is up and running, you not only have a working system, but you have a working map of your hardware and the resources that are assigned to system hardware/drivers outside and inside windows.

Later when or if you run into a problem with new hardware, or you are reading Known Issues for some software application and it says so and so card set to such and such resources is a known conflict, you will probably remember, hey thats where such and such card is set to, so problem resolution is much faster.


[Message Edited]
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top
c714 - Have you updated any drivers lately?


*sigh* the current problem is that i:
* formatted
* installed a nice clean winXP pro
* did not install a single driver
* it is useless

before that, i installed the latest nvidia drivers, only to find that they nuked my ability to play DVD's. so, i moved to some slightly older nvidia drivers, and ended up with a totally unstable machine. please note that there may be no connection here between the nvidia drivers and the instability.


Fuzzy Logic - Dump the modem... That seems to be the common denominator.


good answer, but it isnt a common factor
since it is external, it is turned off when not in use. and many of the crashes have happened when it is turned off.

also, i can send email and surf the web, even post here, with that very modem and my old machine.


IPlural, hardware checking program has now been running for just over 7 hours. the first 5 min checked some hardware, then it started a HD scan. it is going to be scanning the HD for many hours yet. and so far no sign of any problems.




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Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
yeah, large drives do that, it does suck but it is time well spent for sanities sake.

If all comes out clean, then record the BISO/CMOS configuration for you Comports and PCI slots. At least, and then run Windows and see what your addon cards and drivers are set to by Windows Plug and Play, sometimes they do not jive and it can cause problem.

You also might want to make sure you have updated the Chip set Drivers for your specific motherboard, such as the newest release of the VIA 4 in 1 drivers.

My ASUS A7V motherboard used to puke on Win2k and WinXP just like your's is doing now. Once I removed the Promise driver and loaded the VIA 4 in 1, all problems went away.

Wish y'all lived close or I had it here at the house so it would be less a guessing game.

here's wishing you luck!
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
the only thing i can suggest is that it might be a bad mobo.
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It is starting to sound like a voodoo curse.... or some type of demonic possession...Your computer has been pin struck and at this point I can only suggest opening yellow pages and finding a shaman or an exorcist.
Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
*The power of christ compel you*

Is it bad if holy water burns me?
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
*deep sigh*
well, after 11 1/2 hours the hardware scan finished. 5 minutes checking the PC, and the rest of the time checking the HD. it came up clean. it didnt report a single problem!

so, if for the moment i ignore the posibility of a hardware problem with the messed up modem, i am looking at:
* winXP was dead in the water since it was totally unstable
* win98 has problems booting

now, once before winXP was dead in the water, with terminal instability. that was caused by the 28.xx (from memory) nvidia drivers. based on similar problems frogboy was having, that seemed to be due to an interaction problem between the video drivers and the via motherboard bios.

so, it is possible that having to move from one nvidia (the latest) to an older one (since that was the only way to make DVD's work) totally f***** winXP, causing all the instability problems.

and win98, well, that went through 3 different sets of nvidia drivers while i tried to find a set that actually allowed me to watch my DVD's. i mean, surely i cannot blame nvidia for this, after all, why on earth would i actually want to watch any of the DVD's i have gone out and purchased??? (insert unbelivably rude and insulting comment here)

it was this logic that lead to the format.

however, how do i explain the fact that the modem doesnt allow me to send email? all right, perhaps even with all the checking the setup is wrong. however, this does not explain why i was unable to log into wincustomize, and why i was unable to post to another board with this modem!!!

this modem has been flawlessly auto detected in win98, winNT 4 workstation, win2k and winXP. and until this format it has always worked flawlessly.

*sigh* and i am posting this with the very same modem. so, either the clean install of winXP is already f*****, despite the fact i havent done anything with it, or there is a hardware problem. and if there is a hardware problem why does the hardware scanning program give my machine a clean bill of health?

/me starts to wonder if imersing my main PC in several gallons of holy water would help



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Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
oh yes, before anyone mentions the bios vs nvidia drivers problem, i have already flashed my bios. i did that about a month ago, just after i got over the HD crash.

with the old bios i was getting memory access errors reported in the system event logs. the new bios has fixed that problem.



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Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
there is a driver called " 4 in 1 " that you load into WIndowsXP. It handles the VIA buse controller, you might want to install or update to the newest one. This out right fixed my problems with Windows 2000 and Windows XP last year.

VIARena web site
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=267

wish this computer would boot up giggling or something one of these times and flash just kidding on the screen or something.
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
c714 ??? - Sorry feline...

Maybe it is the port and therefore a mainboard error that is causing Your modem-problems, too ? Just guessing further on. At the moment I tend to bet that it is the board.
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
IPlural - there is a driver called " 4 in 1 " that you load into WIndowsXP.


yep, i already have it.

before the HD crash i had a problem with slow to unwatably slow DVD playback on some DVD's. the most extreme case of this was "the usual suspects", which was just unwatchable. the system was sitting at 100% CPU usage, and it wasnt enough.

it turned out i needed to install the 4in1 drivers to make this work.

so, bottom line, previously the modem worked fine without the 4in1 drivers. however, i am considering applying them soon to see if it makes any difference. perhaps i will do that tonight.



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Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top
the 4in1's are a must install after a clean OS install. That's just my humble opinion though



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Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
and another experiment bites the dust.

following the chain of thought about 4in1 drivers, i tried them. the winXP install is as clean as it is going to get. one installed program only, PowerDesk5. no new drivers installed.

so, i deleted the modem in control panel -> phone and modems
then i rebooted to be safe
then i installed the 4in1 drivers
which required a reboot, which was fine with me
so, just after the restart i turned on the modem, so it would be auto detected.

i gave windows a good 5 minutes to finish autodetecting my modem. then i went on line. and can you guess the result? yep, unable to load wincustomize, unable to send email. i had messed up the outlook express settings for downloading email deliberately to avoid splitting my email across 2 machines.

since this is the same behavour as last time, i didnt bother checking to see if i could connect to other sites, or download things.

i am fairly sure i was connected to the net, based on the pattern of lights on the front of the modem.

so, what is going on? it is as if the format "broke" COM1 at the hard ware level, but only broke it enough so that i cannot send email and load some sites. other things can be downloaded *sigh*

you know, i am reaching a state of almost zen calm over this, while underneath the calm layer, all manor of stress, upset and mayhem is boiling away. basically, i have reached the point of accepting that there is probably nothing what so ever i can do to fix my machine, and that some form of major hardware transplant (along with the associated cost) is going to be required.



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Reply #74 from WinCustomize Forums Top
feline...this is beginning to remind me of the Twilight Zone. First of all, forget about the modem. If I've got this right, it appears to work until you try e-mail. Trust me in that the modem doesn't know whether it's sending e-mail or flowers. (they're just not that smart). Everything, when tested separately, comes up with a clean bill of health. Together, it's crash time. I will assume that you got the make of your Mobo from your computer guy so you could flash it. I will also assume that it is a Via chip set board. The updated Via drivers, as are all, usually only address problems with on-board components (audio, USB, etc). There are, however, AGP drivers that can make or break a a perfectly good set-up. Might I suggest you keep the 4.48 drivers (except AGP) installed, but load up an older AGP driver. http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=300#old . Pick one with a date that was around when this machine DID work. (it did work, didn't it?). Run the 4.48 setup and when it gives the option to install/un-install AGP driver, un-install it. Run your older AGP driver setup and install it.
We're going to get this......it's now a mission



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Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top
mmm, something to consider.


www,modemhelp.org
http://www.modemhelp.org/