Removed planet spending adjustment circle: Some thoughts

from GalCiv3 Forums

A way to look at it:

The devs didn't realise how difficult it would be for them to create an AI that could manage that circle and build queue at the same time with the efficiency and micro that a human can. In their old AI design they would never? set the circles on extremes 100/0/0 or 50/50/0 to make sure that things would never stop being built, or from having other AI side-effects. And this lead to huge AI planetary inefficiency compared to the player.

So in order to equalise the playing field, they forced the same ineficiency on the player. The circle is still there in the code, you just can't make the right choice and you are forced to use the AI choices as well.

And now the AI feels much stronger. (granted there were other additions to the code as well)

But the players feel that they are playing a lesser game. Why? Cause the choices are now fixed and very simple and always lead to inefficiency. The player that knows how the numbers are calculated feels stupid and keeps saying to himself "That's not what I want in my worlds"

Game AI being a hard nut to crack and all, you can't really call a tic-tac-toe AI an achievenet, since that game is too simple. But to follow the route of stripping choice from a game? why? because you can't write a competent AI for it?

Well, if planetary efficiency for the AI was a problem, just give them a base 20/20/20 resource amount (as if they had 20% of pop in each category extra) for free on normal and let it play in a 1.4 manner but unlock the circle for the player. But that's cheating! and a reason to start another crusade... Yet I didn't realise when GC vs the AI became an e-sport and the fact remains that we still give it those unholy bonuses on higher difficulties.

But what stinks, at least for me, is the planet model: There is no worker capacity for buildings and each provides an abstract % that could apply from a single person all the way up to quadrillions if you could fit them on the planet. Perhaps a solution/compromise lies in the design space between this production model and MOO2 model.

Too late for such a huge change after release you say? Well what do you call the 1.4 changes then? small?

I still feel that 1.4 butchered the game.

20,140 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

The game has been released, so changes can be made. What I was saying is that if the game had one month before release they better make sure the game is finished. Now at this point after release their is no reason they can't makemajor changes. I wish they bring back the wheel.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I am quite happy with all changes to the patch except this one, and had no problem micro'ing a bunch of planetary wheels in the past and am unhappy to see it removed.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting neilkaz, reply 2

I am quite happy with all changes to the patch except this one, and had no problem micro'ing a bunch of planetary wheels
End of neilkaz's quote

If you listen to the dev's it was so much micro elimination as it was balance,  Withe the wheel the AI just could not compete.  You can argue ..make the AI better and leave the wheel in but that is a tough nut unless you just give the AI more and more free stuff and cheats, which i hate.  I was very bummed at first but it really is not bad once you get the hang of the new system.  And there is no denying it (along with lots of other change) has made the AI so much better and challenging.  In the end is that not what we all want

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Actually, since 1.3 it's been  very easy to make the AI specialise individual  planets. The required code was already present. The change is very much more about tackling the  imbalance between output and costs, and does a decent job of it. The alternative would have been to keep the wheel and change the pricing structure of everything to match it, which is a far more labour-intensive process for what is ultimately more or less the same result.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

If you listen to the dev's it was so much micro elimination as it was balance,  Withe the wheel the AI just could not compete.  You can argue ..make the AI better and leave the wheel in but that is a tough nut unless you just give the AI more and more free stuff and cheats, which i hate.  I was very bummed at first but it really is not bad once you get the hang of the new system.  And there is no denying it (along with lots of other change) has made the AI so much better and challenging.  In the end is that not what we all want
End of quote

It wasn't "balance" - it was simplification, so heavily promoted "superb" GC3 AI can be on par with player. It would be "Balance" if they introduced heavy penalties for ultra-specialization like empire wide approval penalty (after they fix approval in general) or severe raise in maintenance cost for building on specialized planet (oh, economy isn't quite balanced too so it probably don't work) or making some penalties to production/research/wealth is some conditions aren't met. There are a tons of ways to force player to choose what to specialize carefully and not abuse it, but they choose the simplest route. 

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It is dead and buried. Deal with it.