Wildlands versus Map size

An excellent suggestion!

Agreed. Would be so awesome to have a real big part of the map taken by a wildland.

I like too.

To add to my suggestion above, it would be really awesome if Wildlands expanded throughout the coarse of a game.

Maybe every 50 turns or something, all Wildlands increase there space by 1 tile. This forces the player to eventually deal with Wildlands as PART of the game, instead of always ignoring them...since there really is no driving point to them being there at the moment. Any cities or outposts too close to the Wildlands would be enveloped by them.

There could also be a Random Event called 'Elemental Strikes Back' or something corny like that. All Wildland boarders expand by 3 in all directions (instead of 1), consuming within it's boarders any outposts or cities close by.

As a faction, it would now be your job to go back and claim your territory back again, fight off the Wildlands, and perhaps even attempt to remove the blight from the land itself.

To add to the idea above, if any city is consumed by by a Wildland, it automatically starts building and spitting out that Wildlands default creature....maybe one every 5 turns or something like that. The roaming monsters could gather together, make stronger groups in the later game...head for your territory and try for other cities. It could be a real adventure in trying to maintain your empire.

Thoughts? Comments?

I'd love to see:

If Wildlands is turned on in game, make at least one of the wildlands completely cut the world in half. This would force a clearing of the wildlands, or at least the danger of passing all the way through it.

I have to say, I love every idea you have there!

I'm no modder....but if SD doesn't want to persue this.....I would COMPLETELY appriciate and give someone else the credit for this idea if it were to be modded.

Anyone else want to add and flesh out this idea?

Hm maybe make Wildlands more aggressive. So it would produce more units of that wildland type and send them out into the world possibly conquering cities and expanding its borders.

I also really liked the idea of having a wildland cut the world in half.

Maybe have a mapmode where you would have 3/4 quarters of the world covered in wildlands?

I really like the more aggressive idea; taking cities and/or expanding borders.

Dont larger maps have more wildlands by default? I get what you are going at, larger ones that actually feel like vast wastelands, but I also like to have many around dotting the world.

Maybe have an option between large, few ones, and small, many ones. Or like just one of them gets really large and is the main wildland of the game map.

As for the cut the world in half... while interesting, how would that go? A massive corridor wildland, or like the world is an hourglass and the block is in the bottleneck? (regarding that, less pangea worlds and more irregular, diverse worlds)

Maybe you CAN circumvent it, but it takes a long way so you either decide to move around it at cost of efficiency, or take it and get a shortcut maybe.

Would also like some better rewards for clearing. I admit I have not seen all of them (I WANT TO SEE THE SNAKE! DX) but most have as a reward a city and some shards, and while thats awesome in some of them, like the one that is all crystal-ly in appearance (Forgot the name) and blue ground, which tends to have at the very least 3 shards on it, there is also the junkyard that feels so cheap.

One that felt cheap too was the Shroud, granted, Magnar took it before I got there so I jsut took it from him so maybe I missed something, but the city is just cooler looking and a pair of life/death shards? The description said it had treasure. (Again, maybe Magnar got it, will check)

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but felt it related a bit.

Not just differently sized wildlands, but truly 'random' wildlands (it's contents still fitting within its theme) would be very interesting.

I love the idea on expanding wildlands.

And if they generate more units that go after stuff around them even better.

Your basically making a npc faction. I like the idea.

I've been getting my butt kicked every saturday as of late.  But having to worry about an expanding wild-land would definitely add a little extra flavor.

Not sure they would need to take over cities because they roam in their own land.  encircle the city with the wild-land and that should be enough "flavor".

If you're suggesting this as a mod or an option, okay. Otherwise, an expanding wildlands that would convert my cities? No thank you!

In fact, I approve the recent change in 1.2 that limits wildlands monsters from attacking my cities.* The above suggestion is a step in the wrong direction for "mortals" like me.

*Quoting 1.2 change log (bolding mine):

"Monster behavior overhaulted (won't just walk away from lairs, won't attack player cities from wild lands, just lots and lots of goodness here)"

But they still do attack player cities from wildlands. Happened many times in my current game.

PErsonally I don't like the idea of wildland monsters or any monsters or NPC units not being allowed to attack cities. The game does not need to be anymore easier than it already is.  Monsters should be able to attack cities if they are of suffecient power. Otherwise there is no sense of danger.

And I love this idea of the Wildlands expanding and taking over your sities and fortresses. Those taken over start generating more monsters to the point where you have to take them back.

Personally if they have this then it would improve the game almost 100%.. Now there should also be options to turn this off for those that are not into a more challanging mode of play like coyote303.  So the Wildland options should be as follows:

1) Traditional Wildland mode (as it is now)

2) Expanding Wildland.

Then you would have an option to adjust the frequnce of expantion and select how agreesive the Wildings are.  (i.e. Attack cities, respwn rates etc.)

Absolutely brilliant!

Great discussion going on. I'll quote coyote303 here cause out of all the posts, this one seems to be the antithesis for my suggestion:

*Quoting 1.2 change log

Guess it's a bit of personal preferance. I really enjoy wildands but am completely I was looking for a way to make wildlands more interactive and threatening. Currently, you don't have to interact with wildlands if you don't want to....which I think is a real shame since SD put so much work into them.

Pros:

• More interaction would come from Wildlands.
• More pressure is applied to the player as the game progresses
• By setting the number of wildlands you have in a game you are applying another 'difficulty' factor
• Many players state that the game becomes 'dry' in the mid-end game because all the monster lairs have been dealt with. Expanding wildlands would give players something to do...something they had to deal with.

Cons:

• The AI would also have to deal with increased Wildland invasions and the loss of their cities in the event of wildlands overtaking them.
• The more wildlands you have, the harder the game would become...especially in the later parts of the game.

(sorry..I'm for the idea, but if anyone else can come up with CONS or PROS, then please speak up)

I think there would need to be a way to 'beat back' the wildlands as taking on EPIC battles midgame are difficult.

• Perhaps the overall structure of a wildland should consist of 'nodes'
• Each node would have a set equal ZoC (unless there is a central node in which the ZoC could be more extreme)
• These nodes could be the lairs found within a given wildland. 
• As the game progresses, perhaps every 50 turns, the ZoC of each node increases by 1, thus the overall wildland increases in size.
• By taking over a nodes you could reduce the size of the overall wildland, presuming that the neighbouring nodes do not extend far enough to cover the area of the node you have taken over.
• Thus, it could be possible to 'carve' out a path through a wildland, leaving both sides intact.
• Whenever a city is taken over or absorbed into a wildland, it effectively becomes a lair/node for that wildland, starting at a wildland's beginning ZoC.
• Thus, simply taking a city back may not be enough....you may need to take out one or two other nodes within the wildland to 'push' the wildland back.
• By late game, it would be within the game's design that several wildlands would need to be confronted and completely converted to fertile land, which in and of itself would be a boon for further kingdom/empire expansion, let alone the goodies you get from the EPIC encouter.

Thoughts? Comments? 

Okay, I'll keep playing the devil's advocate:

You idea is a matter of taste, of course. However, even if you like the concept, here are a couple of concerns:

1. Balance. Any faction starting near a wildlands is at a serious disadvantage compared to one that isn’t.

2. (Loss of) Flexibility. You lose some of the open-endedness that the game offers.

Both valid points.

In an RPG game however, the story that is told isn't always the fairest. SD has attempted to mitigate this by not having you start beside dragons, etc....but that's not a certainty Often I see Skaths or Corpse Spiders close to my starting locations....those are not  early game battles and the player has to work with that.

The last time I played Gilden I started beside a Wildland....Curgan's Battlefield. I had to spend considerable resources to make sure my borders were well defended and occasionally enter the wildland when I saw easy marks...before they merged and became stronger forces. Yes, it slowed me down in power level relative to the AI factions.....but that's kinda the point. Without those distractions, I'm able to double the second place faction in faction power. Easily. The game becomes a wash because they all are afraid and offer me tribute and treaties. No one wants to fight me.

I only play large maps, I presumed we just got more wildlands, not bigger, just more. There are a good 6 or 7 wild areas on my latest map, there can't possibly be that many on smaller maps, so what's the issue here? I do agree I want them to be more aggressive.

I would like them to be more interactively dynamic for the play of the game. Currently there is no need to take over a wildland. I figure that since the great cataclysm and all these elemental lords of old have been released, they're going to want to expand THEIR territories as well.

It applies pressure to the player mid to late game where there currently is none.

I really like this idea.  It's a little bit like the Antarans in MOO II, but even better because they're always there.  The "nodes" that determine their "territory" could be as simple as monster lairs.  You could beat it back by taking out the lair and maybe placing an outpost.  As you got further toward the center of the wildland, you'd have tougher groups of mobs and of course the boss.  I also think they could certainly send a lot more groups of mobs out into "civilization" than they do now, which seems to be just occasional harassment around the edges.

On a different note, while you CAN ignore the wildlands, the nice city spot, a +3 power monument, some sweet loot (usually) and especially the extra XP for your favorite champs is invaluable, IMO.  Wildlands boss weapons are one of the few ways to keep melee champs relevant late-game.  Although yes, the junkyard could use some love.

Edit:  What it reminds me of far more than the Antarans is the Mongol Horde in Medieval 2: Total War.

The wildlands are all wildly different in nature. Some are just lootboxes where you can send your sovereign alone in the early game and loot epic stuff. (Namtur's Caverns, Scrap Yard) or win against with a micro force (Deorcnysse which really is just a city to produce stuff), or endgame battles with epic rewards (Vetrar, Abeix, Morian, Pyre of Man, Torax) and some stuff that doesn't fit those categories (the stormdragonlair with some altars, the imperium with its bloodspell which is insanely overpowered) and of course there is the endgame quest.

As a sidenote: I have learned to recognize those wildlands only from the minimap which is really funny. (e.g. Deorcnysse is always a circle with a city inside; the scrapyard always has 2 mountains on each side; torax has a mountain labyrinth; etc)

While the epic monsterlairwildlands would be a challenge when they grow, namturs pits would be a blessing (randomly spawning goodie huts anyone?) And a growing Deorcnysse would just never happen. Or would never matter, because the monsters there are no match for even militias. It would only take space.

So while I really like these ideas, there are wildlands which just do not fit into this category. So there would be some ideas needed?