Hero Upgrade Path? » Forum Post by bladewinddraconus

Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

Very good questions?

As far as i can tell.....

all traits are random but higher level traits have no chance of appearing until after you have selected the lower level trait.

In order to properly control the development of a Hero, you will need to be reloading the game incessantly - so for me, that is just too much work, so what i do, i simply choose to focus on other things in the game and pretty much ignore Hero development except to have a very 'generalized' and loose idea of what i want them to be.

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Also, what is the requirement to pick up the 2nd+ path or is it just plain random?

Usually and mostly plain random.

Alot of traits are based off which path you chose though.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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I'd like to see the options for each tree, although after so much playing, I know many of them.

I've found a second path option on a henchman at level 16. It was a defender, and POTG was the possible choice. Sometimes, I've seen it on heroes at levels about 20. But I think that it is a random choice.

The same with the high level traits (acrobat, graceful)...I've seen from level 16 and above.

As they are so random, to make a guide can be hopeless. I'll tell you my preferences:

- For heroes that I expect to level up (Sov and the main hero) I give them potential I-III an knowledge always that is possible. Combined with Tutelage spell, that will allow a greater leveling speed (checked with henchmen: with the same XP provided with QuestMaps, having all of these traits means reaching aprox level 20, while not having them means reaching only level 15: 5 levels of difference. At higher levels, higher difference).

- Other 2 very usefull traits, are the one that gives +initiative to army (tactician?) and the one that gives +XP to the army.

- I focus on special skills that increase attack for warriors and assassins (lethal, sweep, double strike, skilled swordsman,...) and defense if available (dodge, shieldwall, obsidian guard, tactician,...)

- If I count with one or two nice damage-dealer heroes or army, I may have at least one defender that focus more in defense (see above) and Hitpoints (indurance,...). Late game he will have 200-300 hitpoints.

- If none of the above traits is available, then I pick the +initiative (quick, and fast). They are usefull, but generally, you'll see yourself picking them before than you though, because of the randomness. They usually are frequent to appear, so I prefer focus on the ones from above, and leave these for the "and what now?" moments.

- Heroes with no special features, injured, or secondary (I don't expect to level them too much) will become governors and just give growth to a city (fortress probably), maybe some roadbuilding, and little more...

- As you'll see, I do not rely too much in magic path. That depends so much in what happens in the game (number and type of shards, available school magics in heroes,...) that I find it very situational. Of course, a good fire mage can be very serious. Almost all heroes have at least 1 school of magic, so developing each of the magic schools to access all the spells is more than recommended.

+1

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Quoting SOLOSOL,

reply 3

The same with the high level traits (acrobat, graceful)...I've seen from level 16 and above.

As they are so random, to make a guide can be hopeless.

Some traits have known prerequisites. For example the acrobat you mention has dodge 3 as prerequisite(that means getting dodge 1, then 2 and 3, then you can get acrobat). It still is random, but the prerequisite has to be met before you even get a chance of it appearing.

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stax77 Thanks for noting it. I knew that 'gracefull' only appears when having 'quick' and 'fast', but I did not know that prerequisite for 'acrobat'.

For that reason, I find interesting to have a list of them with their prerequisites

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Ok, I went through the trait list in the core file and wrote it all down (you guys owe me an hour )

Rough link here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpc9v6go37bpzlp/Trait%20List.txt

Will sort stuff here:
The "Prereq": is the trait that is required for the first item in the list, the secondary items are only requiring the first item (Lethal II only requires Lethal I, not "Path Of The Warrior")
The list is subject to me missing an item or two (I missed "Fast" the first time around), It does get tiresome looking through text mindlessly copying text
The benefits of upgradeable traits are cumulative, level 3 lethal grants a total of +9 bonus to cutting, blunt or piercing attack (2+3+4 = 9)

Path Of The Assassin: (+15 critical chance, +50% critical damage)
Minimum lvl: 4

Vital Strike: (I, II, III) (+2/+3/+4 to critical chance, +20%/+30%/+40% to critical damage)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Dodge: (I, II, III) (+4/5/6 to dodge)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Deflect Missiles: (+20 dodge against ranged attacks)
Prereq: Dodge I

Acrobat (+1 dodge per level)
Prereq: Dodge 3

Double Strike: (Allows the unit to use double strike: Attack twice, but at a -30 accuracy)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Sweep: (Allows the unit to use the ability Sweep: attack all surrounding enemies)
Prereq: Double Strike

Shadowstrike: (I, II, III) (+25%/+25%/+25% defense ignore)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Precision: (I, II, III) (+5/+10/+15 accuracy)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Impulsive: (Unit goes first (Unit gets +50 Initiative in the first round of combat))
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Executioner: (I, II, III) (+5/+6/+7 attack vs champions)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Gamblers Strike: (Allows the unit to use Gamblers Strike: 50% chance to deal triple damage, 50% chance to miss)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Charge: (+3 moves and +3 attaack on the first turn of combat)
Prereq: PathOfTheAssassin

Marksman: (I, II, III) (+10%/+15%/+20% to pierce damage, and +0/+5/+10 to accuracy)
Prereq: PatfOfTheAssassin
Minimum lvl: (Marksman I = 5) (Marksman II = 7) (Marksman III = 9)

Path Of The Defender: (+20 Weight capacity, +2 hp per lvl)
Minimum lvl: 4

Stun: (Allows the unit to use the ability Stun: normal attack that also stuns the target unless it resists)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Resist Cold: (+50 resistance to cold)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Resist Fire: (+50 resistance to fire)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Obsidian Guard: (I, II, III) (+5/+10/+15 to army's spell resistance)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Medic: (+1 to army's health regeneration)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Shieldwall: (+3 Defense to army)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Guardian: (I, II, III) (+2/+3/+4 to army's dodge)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Hobble: (Allows the unit to use Hobble: Normal attack that laso reduces movement of target by 1, for 3 turns)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Immune To Counterattack: (Unit doesn't suffer from counterattacks)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Immune to Criticals: (Unit doesn't suffer from critical hits)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Endurance: (I, II, III, IV) (+1/+1/+1/+1 hp per level)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Defender: (I, II, III) (+5/10/15 Defense when defending)
Prereq: PathofTheDefender

Path Of The Governor: (+2 growth, and -15% unrest in the city this unit is stationed in)
Minimum lvl: 4

Administrator (I, II, III) (10%/15%/20%) unrest in the city this unit is in)
Prereq: PathOfTheGovernor

Loremaster: (I, II, III) (+1/+2/+3 research per season)
Prereq: PathOfTheGovernor

Merchant: (I, II, III) (+2/+3/+4 Gildar per season, ignores taxes)
Prereq: PathOfTheGovernor

Road Building: (Allows the unit to build roads)
Prereq: PathOfTheGovernor

Path Of The Mage: (-25% mana cost for tactical spells, +50% spell damage)
Minimum lvl: 4

Summon: (I, II, III) (+1/+1/+1 level to summons)
Prereq: PathOfTheMage
Minimum lvl: (Summon I = 3) (Summon II = 5) (Summon III = 7)

Affinity (10% reduced mana cost for tactical spells)
Prereq: PathOfTheMage

Evoker: (I, II, III) (+25%/+25%/+25% bonus spell damage)
Prereq: PathOfTheMage
Minimum level: (Evoker I = 3) (Evoker II = 5) (Evoker III = 7)

Knowledge: (+25% experience earned)
Prereq: PathOfTheMage

Prodigy: (I, II, III) (+5/+10/+15 spell mastery)
Prereq: PathOfTheMage

Path Of The Warrior: (+3 cutting, blunt and pierce attack, +20 weight capacity)
Minimum lvl: 4

Crushing Blow: (You can use crushing blow: +100 attack - but lose next turn)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

Discipline: (+1 accuracy and spell resistance per level)
Prereq: PathofTheWarrior
Minimum lvl: (Discipline = 3)

Tactician: (I, II, III) (+1/+1/+1 to army initiative)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

Leadership: (I, II, III) (+5/+10/+15 to army's accuracy)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

Lethal: (I, II, III, IV, V) (+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 to blunt, pierce or cutting attack)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

Rage: (+8 cutting, blunt and pierce attack when under 25% hp)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

Bruiser (I, II, III) (+ 15%/20%/25% blunt attack per level)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior
Minimum lvl: (Bruiser I = 5) (Bruiser II = 7) (Bruiser III = 9)

Dragon Slayer: (+10 attack vs dragons)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior
Minimum lvl: (Dragon Slayer = 9)

Always Available:

Quick: (+1 Initiative)
Prereq: Always Available

Fast: (+2 Initiative)
Prereq: Quick)

Graceful: (+2 Initiative, cannot be knocked prone)
Prereq: Fast

Strength: (+20 weight capacity)
Prereq: Always Available

Brute (+3 attack vs opponents with a loewr level)
Prereq: Strength

Potential: (I, II, III) (+15%/+20%/+25% experience earned)
Prereq: Always Available

Enmity: (+25% blunt, Cutting and pierce attack vs opposite race (fallen vs men))
Prereq: Always Available

Finesse: (+3 attack vs opponents with lower initiative)
Prereq: Always Available

Spell Resistance: (I, II, III) (+10/+20/+30 to unit's spell resistance)
Prereq: Always Available

Trainer: (I, II, III) (+10%/+15%/+20% to experience earned by army)
Minimum lvl: (Trainer I = 5)

Swordsman: (I, II, III) (+10%/+15%/+20% cutting attack, +0/+1/+2 initiative)
Minimum lvl: (Swordsman I = 5) (Swordsman II = 7) (Swordsman III = 9)

Loner: (+5 to Attack, Initiative, and Dodge when in army alone)
Prereq: Always Available
Note: Don't think I ever saw this one, might be me unlucky, but it says it have a chance of appearing, although a low one.

Not Available, But randomly listed:

Air (I, II, III, IV, V) (Cast Air spells)
Prereq: Trait not avaiable
Minimum lvl: (Air II = 3) (Air III = 5) (Air IV = 7) (Air V = 9)
Note: this is the template for all spells, you got to have level 1 in a spelltype before it shows up in the level tree.

Attunement (+2 mana per season)
Prereq: Trait not available

Bash (Has a chance (Equal to damage done) to knock victims prone)
Prereq: Trait not avaiable

Brilliant (+10% experience earned, +2 spell mastery per level)
Prereq: Trait not available

Frail: (-1 HP per level)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Hardy: (+1 HP per level, Immune to Poison)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Master Of Arms: (+1 to army's Critical Chance)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Might: (+3 to cutting, pierce and blunt attack)
Prereq: Trait Not Avaialable

Scholar: (+10% research empire wide)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Veteran: (Start as level 2)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Wealthy: (+800 gildar at start of the game)
Prereq: Trait Not Available

Edit: Edited the "Air" trait to reflect it is the template for all the spell trait that is available.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

+4

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Wow, awesome.

Question I always had:

Loremaster: (I, II, III) (+1/+2/+3 research per season)
Prereq: PathOfTheGovernor

For stuff like this, is it cumulative or does it replace? I.e if I select the first its +1, then when I select the second - is it +2 or +3 (1+2)???

Makes a big difference - a total of +6 research is pretty impressive, a total of +3 research after 3 level ups isn't.

Lethal: (I, II, III, IV, V) (+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 to blunt, pierce or cutting attack)
Prereq: PathOfTheWarrior

After 5 levels is it +6 to attack or +20? In this case, +20 seems pretty significant while +6 is a bit meh after 5 levels.

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Quoting jutetrea,

reply 8

For stuff like this, is it cumulative or does it replace? I.e if I select the first its +1, then when I select the second - is it +2 or +3 (1+2)???

Its cumulative

Added a little text to reflect this.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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ManiiNames

Join Date 03/2006

+27

Quoting jutetrea,

reply 8

For stuff like this, is it cumulative or does it replace? I.e if I select the first its +1, then when I select the second - is it +2 or +3 (1+2)???

Traits are cumulative, so it's a total of 6 (1+2+3). This is also true of Lethal, which comes out at +20. However the Lethal traits are rare after lethal III I think, so you are unlikely to get +20 without a lot of reloading.

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Great, thanks. Fantastic resource.

Looking at it, the paths are actually kind of weak in terms of variety. Specifically path of the mage and governor. Mage can somewhat survive off pure power + speed.

I really like Sean's class progression for MA - still needs some work (lvl 20 archer runs out of traits), but overall great. Just the fact that it opens up multiple paths is fantastic.

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Thank you, Kongdej

Path of the Henchman: (Not really, but their adept spells...).

Life Adept I/II/III: Aid -> Heal -> Growth
Fire Adept I/II/III: Burning Hands -> Flame Darts -> Focus
Water Adept I/II/III: Slow -> Chaos -> Water Elemental
Earth Adept I/II/III: Hurl Boulder -> Stoneskin -> Shockwave
Air Adept I/II/III: Haste -> Guardian Wind -> Storm (Typo Growth on description)

The only pre-req is that you need to learn ??? Adept I at creation. Only life is worth it (and up to tier 2 at that), as you are better off using books for the other 4 elements.

As for Tactician I... if you pick it up as a Sovereign trait, you don't need path of the warrior to learn II & III. So I usually pick that up and then go PotA/PotD.

Kongdej: When I have more time off work, mind if I take the information here and put it into a guide? Thanks.

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Quoting bladewinddraconus,

reply 12

As for Tactician I... if you pick it up as a Sovereign trait, you don't need path of the warrior to learn II & III. So I usually pick that up and then go PotA/PotD.

Same with discipline, and it gets more powerful with every level.

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Lots of thanks for this, it will help me and a lot of people.

bladewinddraconus If you do a thread-guide, I'll ask to be pinned

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are you insane, path of the mage is insane with a fire 3 warlock - or a death 2/water 2 warlock.

Otherwise i play "One champ stamp" and go path of the assassin to max crit/dodge. I also like to get Path of the Defender on 1-2 guys for shieldwall/guardian.

Normally, i work up the sov as a mage and champ as a defender unless it has a pre-set path - some champs already have a path or path associated ability.

My favorite 2-path combos:

Mage/Defender: With Hardy your mage won't be fluffy anymore.

Assassin/Warrior: Can i say hard hits?

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Quoting bladewinddraconus,

reply 12

Kongdej: When I have more time off work, mind if I take the information here and put it into a guide? Thanks.

No problem
No reason to ask you to make a list when one is already available.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Quoting Kongdej,

reply 7

Ok, I went through the trait list in the core file and wrote it all down

Path Of The Defender: (+20 Weight capacity, +2 hp per lvl)
Minimum lvl: 4

Stun: (Allows the unit to use the ability Stun: normal attack that also stuns the target unless it resists)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Resist Cold: (+50 resistance to cold)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Resist Fire: (+50 resistance to fire)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Obsidian Guard: (I, II, III) (+5/+10/+15 to army's spell resistance)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Medic: (+1 to army's health regeneration)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Shieldwall: (+3 Defense to army)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Guardian: (I, II, III) (+2/+3/+4 to army's dodge)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Hobble: (Allows the unit to use Hobble: Normal attack that laso reduces movement of target by 1, for 3 turns)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Immune To Counterattack: (Unit doesn't suffer from counterattacks)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Immune to Criticals: (Unit doesn't suffer from critical hits)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Endurance: (I, II, III, IV) (+1/+1/+1/+1 hp per level)
Prereq: PathOfTheDefender

Defender: (I, II, III) (+5/10/15 Defense when defending)
Prereq: PathofTheDefender

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Cool! I'd been looking for something like this, wondering if there was a +50% resist lightening trait in the game. Looks like there isn't, after all. ( )

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Is this list stickied somewhere? It should be.

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Quoting Phidrae,

reply 18

Is this list stickied somewhere? It should be.

probably not
Changed a few things and gave the list its own thread here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/438139
I am not sure what is required for a sticky though, all I can advice you to is to save the link.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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