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Wail has got to go

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Wail has got to go

from Sins Forums

I love the Advent..and when I say that I mean seriously I never play any other faction on ICO ever! I have to say though that wail has got to go! The power that it has in mp to change the entire game in literally a few seconds is in my opinion ridiculous. I was in a 5 vs 5 earlier and one of team members got wailed (yes he should have scouted, yes he could have been more careful etc) however after that he never recovered his entire fleet was gone instantly. Yes you loose a planet when you wail but as you know that is little price to pay for what you gain from instantly destroy their entire fleet, you can move in for the kill after such a devastating loss.

 

I was also AR and every entrance to my empire was covered by wail, my partner who was being pushed back retreated to his ice world which was next to my ice which had wail, the enemy was smart (he is a reg player) but there was nothing he could do because I had wail coverage in three different directions, and his team was all VL except for him which he was the other AR. This led to a stalemate because he couldn't go anywhere and neither could we or we would risk wail. Yes we could try to send in corvs or something to take out the temple of communion but any smart player would have defenses there (I build my temple right next to sb). This honestly needs to go because even though so players say it is situational it is FAR to easy to have wail coverage on multiple fronts, and like Sel has pointed out they can even build it on their own world which neighbors yours and use it to take you out, that is just dumb. The only "counter" to this is to nova them into oblivion but we all know how that works on mp

33,406 views 31 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Twilight_Storm, reply 1
The Loss/Gain is definitely weighted in favor of the person who uses it.  (Yes, it should be weighted this way, but not as much as it is.)  For the cost of one planet, you kill a frigate fleet?

Actually, one question before I get into this.  It's supposed to effect all gravity wells adjacent.  So does it just hurt enemies, or your own gravity wells too?

-Twi /)
End of Twilight_Storm's quote

 

Nah you can blow everything up. Get three Terran planets lined up pop: 320 x20x3 =  19,200 damage that (never happens though) and it blows up everything. Doesn't affect you or your allies.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 25

Quoting WarneverChanges, reply 22If you get ride of wail all you will have left is TEC then poeple will complain the TEC persuasive econ is to op. Then that will get nerefed, so on and so fourth until we have a game equivalent to blah Starcraft II. Everyone complained in that game about things that were too op and the developers made the game very boring. VERY VERY BORING and so Starcraft I is now better than Starcraft II now. Don't wanna see that happen here also we need some powerful things in the game otherwise the game goes on forever we need things in the game that can end it quick so it doesnt go on forever!

 

I agree that the devs are over nerfing their cool abilities, making them irrelevant, instead of competitive.

This all started back with the Truce Among Rogues nerf.

Now nobody really uses it, as it doesn't give a reasonable advantage for the cost.  I provided a good design for implementing truce among rogues that would ADD to the game, instead of nerfing it into irrelevance.  It wouldn't even take that much work either.

Vasari loyalists still use their starbases to put up a wall, and then they just sit there practically invulnerable building up a fleet. 

As VL against advent all you do is starbase up, sit and wait for a few hours, get your kostura and fleet up and sell a few planets if needbe, scout and disable wail capable planets.

You have a long boring game this way.  Vasari defense is so total that you risk huge amounts just engaging a starbase.

 
End of sareth01's quote

 

Yes, Vasari defense is nearly undefeatable for Advent. That Vasari ECO is better than Advent ECO seals Advents fate in late game.

 

 

Quoting Twilight_Storm, reply 1
The Loss/Gain is definitely weighted in favor of the person who uses it.  (Yes, it should be weighted this way, but not as much as it is.)  For the cost of one planet, you kill a frigate fleet?

Actually, one question before I get into this.  It's supposed to effect all gravity wells adjacent.  So does it just hurt enemies, or your own gravity wells too?

-Twi /)
End of Twilight_Storm's quote

 

Nope it does not damage friendly units.

 

 

 

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Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

Telekinetic Armor Fracture on Advent Heavy Cruiser might beef them up.  50% chance per shot of armor reduced 0.25 with a stack limit of 6 so there is a chance of up to -3 armor.

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 26

Quoting sareth01, reply 25Now nobody really uses it, as it doesn't give a reasonable advantage for the cost.

Eco players do...it actually is quite useful for them...rushing TAR does hinder your early early growth a little but in the long run it is extremely useful if you have even a couple decent planets near center of map, especialy if those planets are "on the other side" of the center....
End of Seleuceia's quote

I've seen players in suicide rush it too with some success.

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 30

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 26
Quoting sareth01, reply 25Now nobody really uses it, as it doesn't give a reasonable advantage for the cost.

Eco players do...it actually is quite useful for them...rushing TAR does hinder your early early growth a little but in the long run it is extremely useful if you have even a couple decent planets near center of map, especialy if those planets are "on the other side" of the center....

I've seen players in suicide rush it too with some success.
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

Early feed wins games more often than not.  For example, that last game I played you sel, I fed Multiz (who was in the suicide spot) 5 min into the game and kept the feed relatively constant.  He didn't die like he should have, and then it was an easy day from that point on.  We double teamed you, you were folding, and Multiz totally iced the two fleets that were attacking his HW because he had enough resources to deal with it.

Tar hampers early emergency feed capability, so it is a "use this if no serious trouble is occurring" button.  In a tough, skilled multiplayer game, rushing TAR is going to be mostly a disadvantage.  I agree there are some situations that it can be good, especially if you can gain easy control of the center (and it has lots of heavily guarded terrans/deserts) early on.

You need breathing room, and a good eco with good players on the front lines that can at least stalemate their fronts will allow you to use TAR to full effect.  So using it also depends greatly upon your team.  If you trust the guys you are playing with, TAR is a great tool.

Yet, this usually isn't the case, and it takes just 1 guy not playing right to potentially become a money pit for the Eco, so your eco would be getting TAR up right about when your team needs a LOT of feed.  Things happen on the front lines, so its a safer bet to play it cool and play the traditional way if you aren't 100% about the people you are playing with. 

 

 

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 31
Early feed wins games more often than not. For example, that last game I played you sel, I fed Multiz (who was in the suicide spot) 5 min into the game and kept the feed relatively constant. He didn't die like he should have, and then it was an easy day from that point on. We double teamed you, you were folding, and Multiz totally iced the two fleets that were attacking his HW because he had enough resources to deal with it.
End of sareth01's quote

The lack of feed pretty much killed both our frontlines...hell, you yourself had absolute shit planets for eco yet you still gave feed and it made a world of difference...you were Advent but let's play the what ifs....you personally would have gained very little benefit from TAR and you would basically have been unable to feed as early as you did...TAR would have been no good for you...

Quoting sareth01, reply 31
You need breathing room, and a good eco with good players on the front lines that can at least stalemate their fronts will allow you to use TAR to full effect. So using it also depends greatly upon your team. If you trust the guys you are playing with, TAR is a great tool.
End of sareth01's quote

I agree 100%...I've rushed TAR with a blind eye in certain games, but only because we had multiple ecos and I trusted our frontliners...if you are expanding as fast as you can with TAR, your early feed will be very crippled because of the lack of good trade and the constant investment costs on new planets...

In relation to that game, your 2nd eco player (if they were TR) probably could have rushed TAR and your team would have been okay because you yourself could have handled the early feed...with 1 eco though the viability of TAR rushing is...well, risky....