Wail has got to go

The Loss/Gain is definitely weighted in favor of the person who uses it.  (Yes, it should be weighted this way, but not as much as it is.)  For the cost of one planet, you kill a frigate fleet?

Actually, one question before I get into this.  It's supposed to effect all gravity wells adjacent.  So does it just hurt enemies, or your own gravity wells too?

-Twi /)

If you are AR and your grav well is adjacent to an enemies you can wail them. So if as it usually happens an aggressor retreats to their repair and frig facts you can wail them and take them out

Here's the thing:

1. Vasari have stuff so much more OP
2. AR have nothing other than a great titan and wail
3. Wail isn't consistently OP...only some times (common enough to be a problem at least)

Wail likely isn't going to get changed...there isn't enough consensus on how to change it or if it even should be changed...I for one think it is ridiculous but maybe if the devs surprise us with a buff to TL and AL, it won't matter....

You know, if every faction had an equal number of OP things, than that would help for some measure of balance. 

That is the most backwardly true thing I have ever heard.

-Twi /)

And not only that, but depending on the nature of the OP things, it would make the races more unique as well. The question is what to give the AL and TL. For the latter, perhaps, a tier 0 tech that halves the cost, and slot usage, of all tactical structures? This would fit in both with the TL lore, and be quite powerful, allowing for two turrets for the price of one for example, even if they take just as long to build as usual.

Or just bypass that altogether and let TEC Loyals jump their Turrets into the phase lanes to chase those pesky vasari.  

-Twi /)

I just trolled and I said something smart by accident. Should I be proud?

I just think its ridiculous how wail can block off the map like it does knowing that you can lose your entire fleet there needs to be atleast a warning or like strip it takes an x amount of time to activate 

In all my years of playing RTS games, it probably ranks #1 as most difficult thing to balance I've seen. This is because it can be everything from a null factor to game changing depending on the game and map and because it penalizes at the same time as rewards.

^^ Concur

I don't want it to be removed...it's cool...but man, I'm just not happy with the current implementation....

Maybe make it kill un-upgraded corvettes, and severely damage everything else.  That way the person can retreat and repair, which buys the person who used Wail enough time to set up a counter-attack, or re-build, as necessary.

-Twi /)

Yeah the concept is cool maybe I should have worded it differently wail in its current form needs to go there needs to be a warning or some time to react because currently it can block off the map

Considering the Eradica's ability can do more damage than that for FAR less cost, I don't think that's wise. I'd agree to it, if you only lost some population off the planet and took no damage. Otherwise that's a massive over nerf. Wail becomes useless. You sacrifice a full Terran planet to... force your enemy to use those Hoshiko's they have with them?

Damage and such should remain around the same, but it should be more fine tuned as to how it can be used. I've seen suggestions for making it either a purely defensive or purely offensive ability - it only affects your own, or only affects hostile owned gravity wells. Personally I'm more in favour of it being aggressive. It becomes harder to set up, and doesn't make you immune to attack, it just makes it easier for you to push into enemy worlds if you spend half an hour waiting around with a terran planet.

Wail is still far more balanced then jumping starbases, lol!

anyways, Most games a good wail doesn't come up.

PEOPLE, YOU NEED TO SCOUT MORE!

SCOUTS > WAIL

LEARN PLS.

Lol...sareth you are such a troll....

Funny story, the other team kept asking me today if I was AR or AL, cause they wanted to know if I had wail....then Reaper sent ~50 scouts to all my planets trying to destroy my culture centers...he didn't kill any....

That's pretty noobish. You can tell from the diplomacy screen. Though admittingly that's not a screen you use very often in multiplayer.

Well, I think they were trolling me...they were about to quit and when the first one left the game MDed for everyone...

Yes you can scout and see that they have wail, and then you can do nothing for if you try to attack your fleet with be obliterated, yes you can split up your fleets but that leaves you at a severe disadvantage, only thing you can do is nova the planet and then attack =[

Interestingly, if online player counts are any indication, the game isn't very popular right now, and poor racial balance may be a significant contributing factor.

If you get ride of wail all you will have left is TEC then poeple will complain the TEC persuasive econ is to op. Then that will get nerefed, so on and so fourth until we have a game equivalent to blah Starcraft II. Everyone complained in that game about things that were too op and the developers made the game very boring. VERY VERY BORING and so Starcraft I is now better than Starcraft II now. Don't wanna see that happen here also we need some powerful things in the game otherwise the game goes on forever we need things in the game that can end it quick so it doesnt go on forever!

What part of "send a scout, kill the builders and temple" you people dont understand?

There is Many ways to avoid and neutralize wail.

You have to come to wail, wail cant come to you, this makes it strictly situational, unlike jumping turnip, eat a planet, kostura troll cannon and novalith.

And we all know advent lack the real super weapon. The Porn launcher (culture cannon) is not what i call a super weapon, unless you plan to bore your enemy to death.

Doing "just" damage to smaller ships would make wail pretty useless.

Because there is nothing from stopping your enemy to retreat for 2 minutes and then be back in full force.

Unless you have your fleet there... but if you have your fleet there you usually wont use Wail.

Unless you are desperate, and that is the only position I can see you using it.

I think that damage potential and range are fine.

The main issue is just the lack of warning.

BTW - See this thread:

General Wail Balancing discussion:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/428672

I agree that the devs are over nerfing their cool abilities, making them irrelevant, instead of competitive.

This all started back with the Truce Among Rogues nerf.

Now nobody really uses it, as it doesn't give a reasonable advantage for the cost.  I provided a good design for implementing truce among rogues that would ADD to the game, instead of nerfing it into irrelevance.  It wouldn't even take that much work either.

Vasari loyalists still use their starbases to put up a wall, and then they just sit there practically invulnerable building up a fleet. 

As VL against advent all you do is starbase up, sit and wait for a few hours, get your kostura and fleet up and sell a few planets if needbe, scout and disable wail capable planets.

You have a long boring game this way.  Vasari defense is so total that you risk huge amounts just engaging a starbase.

Eco players do...it actually is quite useful for them...rushing TAR does hinder your early early growth a little but in the long run it is extremely useful if you have even a couple decent planets near center of map, especialy if those planets are "on the other side" of the center....