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I don't want to feel like I'm cheating when I make a custom Sovereign/Race

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I don't want to feel like I'm cheating when I make a custom Sovereign/Race

from Elemental Forums

I like conceptualizing my own races, and telling my own story. The game is designed for that. But right now, the stock factions are being put together and balanced with options in the Sovereign designer to illustrate the Lore, and those options are not all created equal. It is far too easy to put together a version of any of the factions that has all of the strengths, but none of the weakness, or to mix and match a Sovereign /Race combo that is patently superior to any given faction.

 

I don't want to have to feel like there is an asterisk next to any game I play as a custom sov.

 

The obvious thing is to say, well make sure all abilities and choices are balanced. But I think there's only so much you can do in that regard. Some choices will always be better, and the ability to mix and match abilities to min/max a concept is inherently unbalancing.

 

I would like it if the Stock races had value in that they couldn't be entirely recreated in the Sovereign Designer. Either a unique ability that wasn't exposed to the player in custom creation, or have them be constructed with a greater number of points than a player gets for a free-form Sov. So if a player gets 6 points, the stock Sovs get 8 points, for example. The Mix and Match ability is very powerful.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

18,070 views 33 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

On a related note, is it possible to make a custom sovereign with Procipinee's Crown?  I didn't see it anywhere, but I may have overlooked it.  That would be one option - give the pre-built sovereigns some unique gear that fits with the lore.  My custom sovereign can't have Procipinee's Crown because, well, he's not Procipinee. :)

 

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 24


The more I play, the more I also dislike the unique abilities the factions seem to have.


Paridan's Scrying Pools: Every faction should have these. Other factions should simply be getting them later and with less benefit than Paradin.
Magnar's Population: Every faction should gain some population for humanoid captures. Magnar should just gain more.
Gilden: Every faction already gets some special equipment....every faction definately has access to equipment. This one is done properly.
Resolin: Really neat to get FREE troops though shards. Every faction should have this...maybe only with the elements that they are trained in. Resolin should get them more often or have stronger types.
Tarth: The advanced scout? While every faction has scouts and hense, I think this one is done properly....who wants scouts? Scouts need more purpose in the game. The bows are a good addition though, a little overpowered...but that's in the balacing.
Altar's Henchmen: Every faction should have access to hirinng henchmen. Altar should just have more of and better ones.
Trogs lack of ranged weapons: Umm...okay. I will say that they're stonger in melee, so this one is done properly too.
Krax's diplomacy: Every faction can hire heros. Krax can simply hire from both sides. This one is done properly...but too powerful in its current state since heros are the stongest forces in this game.

Anyways, that's how I'm seeing it the more I play through it...

 
End of GFireflyE's quote

Well, to be honest, I strongly disagree.  The problem with most 4X games is that the factions have very little to distinguish them.  The bland, boring world of "this faction gets +10% production, that faction gets +10% research" is exactly what FE is (rightfully) trying to avoid.  The proper way to differentiate factions is to give them completely unique abilities, which is what FE is now doing wonderfully.

 

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Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cauldyth, reply 27

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 24


Well, to be honest, I strongly disagree.  The problem with most 4X games is that the factions have very little to distinguish them.  The bland, boring world of "this faction gets +10% production, that faction gets +10% research" is exactly what FE is (rightfully) trying to avoid.  The proper way to differentiate factions is to give them completely unique abilities, which is what FE is now doing wonderfully.

 
End of Cauldyth's quote

Exactly!!!!!! 

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

So be it. I don't mind being wrong with an idea. But the current system doesn't advocate a unique set of factions either. Gilden, Tarth, Trog, Krax, and Altar all have their uniqueness marginalized by items, abilities, and equipment that you can obtain in game. All that I was saying is that they should all be in the same basket. Either have them all marginalzied...or all unique...but not some in one camp and some in the other.

And the game is about essence. Every faction should be able to access it for their cities. <_<

(well, essence...and heros...and cities...and magic...and other stuff...but definately essence. :grin:  )

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Here is still very much hoping that both in souvereign creation as well as faction creation different values for different traits are reintroduced somewhat (like a spread of 1-3 in cost and axing the 0-cost stuff in favor of costing 1 point as well as defaulting the average trait at 2 and doubling the points available. Leaves more option to balance stuff right. Starting techs are way expensive currently as are special weapons while stuff like brilliant or starting with a 1000 Gold or light plate armor is quite a bit underpriced with all costs being equal at cost one or alternatively completely free, same is true for disadvantages...)

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 30
So be it. I don't mind being wrong with an idea. But the current system doesn't advocate a unique set of factions either. Gilden, Tarth, Trog, and Altar all have their uniqueness marginalized by items, abilities, and equipment that you can obtain in game. All that I was saying is that they should all be in the same basket. Either have them all marginalzied...or all unique...but not some in one camp and some in the other.

And the game is about essence. Every faction should be able to access it for their cities.

(well, essence...and heros...and cities...and magic...and other stuff...but definately essence.  )

 
End of GFireflyE's quote

I don't think the game SHOULD be about essence, also because it was added as an extra feature in 4th beta, it should be about having tremendous cities and powerful units, and a pet duck. (I would really wish if the city enchants would be more well-balanced).

Agreed that some factions gets boring compared to others, Paridens lacks some special units, same does Tarth, and Gilden and Yithril needs they're special unit more properly balanced, and meaby a re-look at they're faction ability.

 

Cauldyth - You can find the special equipment under "Appearance" - "Equipment" in the sovereign creation screen, agreed it is hidden in a very silly place.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Ahhh, thanks Kongdej!

 

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

I feel that the nice range of abilities available while customizing your sovereign and faction - beastlord and and juggernauts for example - should be used as techs and spells and level up perks for cities and heroes. Doing that would create an amazing amount of additional content for the game.

Just imagine golems as city level ability for conclaves or beastlord as a spell. It would also be in spicing up the tech tree, where truly interesting techs are not in the majority.