Noob gettig beaten on easy, help!

Right i recently picked up a copy of sins trinty and am playing diplomancy, awesome game but i must really suck as i cant beat the game even on easy and i've never really been bad at RTS games but this one is giving me a head ache.

Now i tried playin 1 vs 1 and got owned very quickly, so ive put it to have about 4 players on me and an AI vs 2 others, and im still having big problems, everyone says expand quickly so i have, got roughly 8 planets before i got stuck expanding. THe issue i've got is the sheer amount of capital ships the enemey has, i have about 4... this is after like 3-4 hours playing where i found the enemey AI have 10+ and my allied AI only has 5. so whenever i attack an enemey system my attack force jus gets set packing then theey  follow me back to my system where i have a starbase (fully upgraded) along with a dozen turrets hangars and about 3 repair bays....and even with all that i get walked over. So could someone give me some tips as to what im doing wrong whats a good starting stragey and how the hell do you overcome capital ships. As i've hit a brick wall and cant expand anymore as i cant break the defensive lines of the enemey's bases :(

 

4,588 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

First off, research LRFs (Javelis for TEC, Assailants for Vasari, Illuminators for Advent). They are powerful.

Second, how are you at developing the planets that you take. They don't have to be fully developed, but if you don't put something in they will eat up some money.

Third, try entrenchment as the AI is a bit weaker there.

Reply #2 Top

Fourth, (to continue Ryat's list) turn pirates off in Diplomacy.

Fifth, there comes a point where expansion isn't feasible, you are better off expanding to a good choke point, fortifying the location, don't leave the AI alone, and stay ahead of them in every stat, you will win if you do that.

Reply #3 Top

Hmm, 10 capitalships on easy? How big are the fleets here? Capitalships are vital for their abilities, but in overall firepower they can't compare pound for pound to Long Range Frigates or Heavy Cruisers, at least until they reach high levels.

My standard tip for beginners is to play a game on a decent sized map with no AI players. This will give the oppertunity to practice expanding efficiently and get to learn what all the techs/units/abilities for their faction are. If you want some military experience you can leave pirates on.

Also there are many good threads here in the strategy sections about good fleet combinations, ability tips etc. you may want to read up on. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask here.

Reply #4 Top

got roughly 8 planets before i got stuck expanding ... this is after like 3-4 hours playing
End of quote

Eight planets in 3-4 hours is extremely slow.  This really shouldn't take you more than 40 minutes tops; ideally it should be more in the range of 20-25 minutes.  So there's a lot of room for you to speed up.

As others have mentioned, a common beginner mistake is not purchasing planetary population upgrades.  New planets will bleed your treasury until you've upgraded them, so always buy these upgrades immediately.  Otherwise, avoid more than basic development. 

i have about 4... this is after like 3-4 hours playing where i found the enemey AI have 10+ and my allied AI only has 5
End of quote

The number of capital ships is largely meaningless.  All that matters at this point in the game are capital ships above level 5.  Unless you've been suffering perpetual casualties, it's unlikely to be more than 2 or 3.

As others have mentioned, capital ships aren't very intimidating until they level up substantially.  For this reason, most experienced players adhere to the philosophy of "fewer, stronger" with their capital ships.  You get access to the best abilities, and your fleet has more firepower due to additional frigates. 

follow me back to my system where i have a starbase (fully upgraded) along with a dozen turrets hangars and about 3 repair bays....and even with all that i get walked over
End of quote

If the AI outnumbers you so dramatically that it can overrun a station like this, you probably lost long ago on purely economic grounds.

and how the hell do you overcome capital ships
End of quote

If you spend the same amount on bombers, long range frigates, or heavy cruisers as the opponent does on capital ships, killing them is actually really easy.  In fact, as fleets get very large it's actually the opposite way around; you need to be very careful in order to keep capital ships alive successfully because they're so easy to kill.  Your problem is that you're so heavily outnumbered that it just doesn't matter anymore.  Your units are melting like butter before they can actually do anything.

 

Really, a replay of the first 30 minutes or so of your game would be very enlightening.  That'd help me pinpoint exactly what your issue is.  The fact that the game went on for hours is irrelevant; from what you describe, the writing was probably on the wall in the first 30 minutes or so.

Reply #5 Top

Just to remix things a bit, as others have said, concentrate early research on getting long range frigates.  These often form the very backbone of a fleet, and most definitely do so during the earlier parts of a game(perhaps ending the game outright if it is a small 1v1).  Don't bother much with other research early on, as getting more ships instead provides a bigger benefit.  In general the good early research includes: long range frigates with flak frigates after that to protect them, arctic colonizion and trade ports on the civilian side (the Advent can throw up a culture building early too).

 

In terms of capital ships, just stick with the one freebie early on.  Expand your fleet supply one tick and get more frigates for some quick firepower.  As for starter capital ships, if you're doing small 1v1 against the AI: TEC can't go wrong with a Sova Carrier for early combat, Advent go well with a Progenitor Mothership and a Halcyon carrier to follow a bit later, and the Vasari can do well with the Evacuator colonizer or a Devastator battleship and either can be followed by a Skirantra carrier.  The TEC are the easiest faction to use as you're learning the game though.  They have a ton of cheap ships coupled with a good economy. 

 

For starbases, don't try rushing starbase tech early on.  If you're on a decently sized map, say with 8 or more gravity wells per player, you can plop one down at a chokepoint.  But don't leave it alone.  Put a frigate factory there along with some repair structures.  Starbases are quite weak until they get 1-2 levels in defense.  But that costs a fair bit of money.  Your fleet should be the ones to focus on early game defense.  A single repair structure can make all the difference for a defending fleet. 

 

Relating to that, don't waste a bunch of resources on static defenses like turrets.  If you need an early game choke point, just setting down a frigate factory with one repair structure can be enough.  If you know the enemy has a decent fleet in the area, consider putting a single turret next to the frigate factory and repair structure.  That adds some good punch to frigates as they defend an area.

 

When it comes to actual expansion, grabbing your asteroid next door and a single planet nearby is enough to get you started pumping out fleet.  From there look for chokepoints to secure, or neutral extractors you want to claim.  Neutral extractors can by very important to early economic booms, as they provide a far faster income rate than standard extractors at your colonies.  From there you can send a second capital around to neutral worlds within your secured sector to colonize places and get some free experience.

 

For race specific generic opening strategies to get you started:

TEC - LRM frigates followed by repair structures and the Hoshiko Robotics cruiser, then some Garda flak frigates as needed, on the civilian side go for colonization and trade ports.  TEC thrives on credits, and their cheap ships which repair on the go thanks to the Hoshiko lets them leverage a strong economy even as they fight.  You should ideally have credits falling out of your pockets even as you spend them, purchasing extra resources when needed to continue your empire's growth.

 

Advent - takes some getting used to compared to the TEC.  They need more research to get their Illuminators and trade ports.  Luckily the Disciples are cheap and your freebie capital ship(whether Progenitor or Halcyon) fights well alongside them.  Getting culture up early can help balance out their economy, especially since they'll want to colonize an extra world or two early on if safely possible.  As Darvin3 said in another thread, often times you'll stop at 3 civilian research labs and focus on military from there on.  Guardians pair up quite well with the Progenitor, and their tier 4 Repulsion ability totally changes the battlefield in favor of the Illuminators. 

 

Vasari - focused on quick mobile expansion/combat.  Assailants are great if you can find even a single neutral crystal extractor, and are generally worth selecting over the somewhat maligned Skirmisher.  Sentinels can be tossed in later as needed.  Phase Missiles are used on so many Vasari ships, strikecraft and structures that it makes it really easy to pick up at least the tier 1 research relatively early.  Combine it with strong capital ship abilities like Nano-disassemblers on the Evactuator(which makes your early fleet specialized capital ship hunters, especially once it hits level 4 and you can pick up Gravity Warhead to prevent escapes by damaged enemy capitals), or Scramble Bombers on the Skirantra(which is about to be toned down to a far more reasonable level) and you have an early game advantage despite fielding fewer ships.  Keep the pressure up though, since your credit economy will take forever to ramp up.  The Vasari focus more on holding extractors and trading in their extra resources for credits, either to other players or the black market.  Lastly, their starbase tech is only tier 2, and is deployed from the otherwise humble Vasari colonizing frigate.  This plays directly into their quick expansion philosophy, allowing you to effectively seal off neutral extractors for yourself(preferably by seizing a chokepoint ahead of them).

Reply #6 Top

Make sure that early in the game if you think you gonna loose the fight you retreat and build up forces. Don't waste your ships and give free experience to enemy copital ships. Build suficient size fleet before you attack or get involved into fight to defend planets. 

If you still have trouble get research for star bases and leap frog build them. It means build SB then attack another planet + SB it then do this again. Make sure you upgrade your SBs on the border planets and keep capital ships there to LVL them up. Manually place defence structures near sb (cluster them...) when your cap ships loose half of hp retreat to next planet .....

Read forum posts about counters for each ship type and how to expand fast and get strong economy.....

If you have problems with enemy bases if you are vasari go bomber heavy if you are tec build ogrows (about 20 for fully upgraded SB). Research upgrades (hull, armor, shield and weapons) are important.....