Temple of Essence BUG (i think)

In version 1.7  - I have found that if i build a temple of essence and leave my children who can channel in a town with one  (they start in the capital) - weird things happen to their Essence and Mana.  I see it on the Sovereign - but not to the same extent.

The temple says it doubles the essence – 10 essence - becomes 20 I assume (which means 20 mana as well).

I thought that it might just be adding the mana bonus (10 in the above example) each turn I had a look at this and can’t see the mana score change each turn.   So it’s not that. 

I only noticed the changes after I built mana temples.  At that point my Sovereign went from 22 mana to 30 something – when I first saw it – and after going into a number of towns and playing a bit he had 151,  my kids had 496 and 595 when I first looked at them.

Anyone else seeing this?

I did a search on Temple of essence but didn’t come up with anything…

13,756 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

I think temple of esseence is messed up regardless of being bugged. It seems to increase my casters mana for each one built. That's just way too powerful.

Reply #2 Top

I'm not sure what it does.  But I think it needs looking at,  giving a Character a one time essence boost when they go to each town with a temple -  or a one time boost on the first town with temple would be cool.  but my poor Sovereign with 22 essence having kids with 500+  is a little off the mark.  Thanks for the reply...

Reply #3 Top

My sovereign was at 190ish and Janusk in the low 170s my last game...  it was gross :)

Reply #4 Top

It appears from my simple 'testing' that each temple of essence adds 50% to a caster's base essence (I just built one and my sov's essence bonus went from 260% to 310%, Sov wasn't in that city, and hasn't been there for quite a while). 

[I have no clue how he got 310% generally -- I have 5 temples of essence for 250%, not sure where the other 60% is from but I haven't tried to find out yet].

This does seem overpowered, for a city spammer anyways (imagine having 50 cities with one -- 2500% bonus!).  For a non-city spamming strategy (yeah, I know, the game heavily favors city-spamming but I'm a dreamer...), then it's perhaps not that unreasonable (given the current lack of balance in the game anyhoo...)

Reply #5 Top

Thanks for that -  i'm glad you were able to work out what was going on :)

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 4
not sure where the other 60% is from but I haven't tried to find out yet
End of Nick-Danger's quote

Each shard you build a shrine on gives you +10% Essence.

Reply #7 Top

Ah ok - i didn't know that - thanks again.  Maybe the temples need to be a little toned down then

Reply #8 Top

On a side note, anyone know why, in the Hierosomething encyclopedia entry of temple of essence it says 50% on the left side, but 4900% on the right side?

Reply #9 Top

Quoting AndonSage, reply 6

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 4not sure where the other 60% is from but I haven't tried to find out yet
Each shard you build a shrine on gives you +10% Essence.
End of AndonSage's quote
Thanks for the info :)

Hmmm... I have no shrines.  And not just no developed shrines, I have no undeveloped shrines either.  And not just no shrines at all in my area of influence, but there are no shrines at all on the discovered part of the map.

 

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Khardis, reply 8
On a side note, anyone know why, in the Hierosomething encyclopedia entry of temple of essence it says 50% on the left side, but 4900% on the right side?
End of Khardis's quote

It's a bug related to how building description "parser" interprets game data.

In game files bonus value is 50, and game interprets it correctly as 50%, while code that displays value in description screen thinks it's multiplier (so it thinks that value of 50 means 50x increase, or +4900% bonus).

 

.

As for balance itself, in current state Temple of Essence is pretty much overpowered building, due to stacking. Five 3rd levels cities -> +250% bonus to essence, or veeery big mana pool.

What is interesting to notice is that Empire has per faction building that gives +75% bonus to essence, so I really think Temple of Essence was supposed to be per faction building too, not something that every city can build.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting TheBirthdayParty, reply 1
That's just way too powerful.
End of TheBirthdayParty's quote

The whole essence is really confusing and not document that I can see. I am still trying to work out what is going on.

However I think it is less important than you say. There is very little difference that I can see between an essence of 20 and 20,000,000. It is the rate of essence gain that is the limiting factor. A Fire giant still needs 16 days worth of essence to cast.

A large essense for your hero means that you are not imbuing enough champions. The more often you do this the more essence points you gain a turn.

 

Reply #12 Top

Sure, it's not outright broken, due to low mana regen, but still... With insane essence value, you can imbue every hero in the game, have enough mana left for sovereign and not need to increase essence for new imbued heroes at level up at all.

For example, starting 3 essence for freshly imbued heroes becomes 18 mana, if you have 10 cities with temple of essence (+500% bonus).

That can't be indented behavior.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 9

Quoting AndonSage, reply 6
Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 4not sure where the other 60% is from but I haven't tried to find out yet
Each shard you build a shrine on gives you +10% Essence.Thanks for the info
Hmmm... I have no shrines.  And not just no developed shrines, I have no undeveloped shrines either.  And not just no shrines at all in my area of influence, but there are no shrines at all on the discovered part of the map.

 
End of Nick-Danger's quote

 

I think that some of the techs in magic give 10% essence bonuses.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting p22, reply 12
Sure, it's not outright broken, due to low mana regen, but still... With insane essence value, you can imbue every hero in the game, have enough mana left for sovereign and not need to increase essence for new imbued heroes at level up at all.

For example, starting 3 essence for freshly imbued heroes becomes 18 mana, if you have 10 cities with temple of essence (+500% bonus).

That can't be indented behavior.
End of p22's quote

 

You can't actually do that (I tried).  If your sovereign has 20 essence with a 500% bonus from 10 Temples (not hard on a large map) he has 120 essence to work with for most things. When you cast Imbue champion it takes 3 essence from the base 20, not from the boosted 120.  So one cast would leave you with a base of 17 and a boosted total of 102.  The champion would have 3 base essence and a boosted total of 18.

Although one game I played I had somewhere around 3,200% bonus to essence so 3 essence became 96....  I don't know what I had between techs, shards, and temples, but I controlled about half of a large map with enough city centers an average of 8 squares apart.

 

Reply #15 Top

I agree I have some children with 140 essence to start with and they regenerate 1 - 6 points of mana and health a turn depending on the child my soverign feels pathetic by contrast.

 

I think these should not in fact stack but do. However with the changes to the magic system coming up I doubt this will continue to be an issue.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Dhraconus, reply 14

If your sovereign has 20 essence with a 500% bonus from 10 Temples (not hard on a large map) he has 120 essence to work with for most things. When you cast Imbue champion it takes 3 essence from the base 20, not from the boosted 120.  So one cast would leave you with a base of 17 and a boosted total of 102.  The champion would have 3 base essence and a boosted total of 18.

Although one game I played I had somewhere around 3,200% bonus to essence so 3 essence became 96....  I don't know what I had between techs, shards, and temples, but I controlled about half of a large map with enough city centers an average of 8 squares apart.

 
End of Dhraconus's quote

 

A lot of these misunderstandings come from players who haven't spent any time learning various strategies, and think in terms of "one right way" and who are going up against a blind deaf retarded AI with one hand and both legs tied behind its back. If you don't imbue your heroes, your sovreign ends up with an enormous mana pool. The fact that most tactical spells worth using in late game cost 15 mana and have a roughly 2% chance of doing anything at all... means you need to have a LOT of mana, and focus most of your level points on intelligence in order to keep up with the escalating defense and health stats of an enemy army or random monster spawn. If you DON'T have 100 mana and you run into an "elemental lord" in the woods, you'd better have a couple of military units that cost over 2K gildar already built, or that thing is going to march across your kingdom razing cities, and single-handedly wipe out half the map. In a multiplayer game that goes past 200 turns, this will be a major issue. People who DO imbue their heroes will need to spend most of their level up points on essence, since it costs an entire level worth of character points per hero you imbue just to keep an even keel on your sovreign. This combined with multiple magic-using offspring CAN create quite an army of summoned critters, but keep in mind also that mana takes a long time to regen even if you have all the bonuses, so there is an even greater time restriction on summoned armies than on paid-for ones. Roll those THREE different kinds of strategies into one, imbue a few heroes, stock up on sovreign's INT, lead armies of combined spell-casters and military stacks and summoned monsters into battle, and you stand a pretty good chance of facerolling anyone who super-specialized in one of the other three options. Yet another option is to have your sovreign and one or two others just go around casting hexes on enemy cities, while boosting the hell out of your diplomacy and making a ton of Gildar by selling all your materials, and causing the AI to fight with itself so you don't have to actually get involved and lose anything. This is the alliances strategy, and requires an ENORMUOS amount of mana concentrated into only a couple of units that can run really far every turn. Sometimes the AI will have so many gigantic units stacked in a city at the same time, you just can't take it, that's when the hex strategy works best.

Another strategy is the cold-war, where you pressure your borders into the enemy that you are paying to be friendly, and slowly crawl across their resources until you have dominated their economy. Then use all that money you made to pay someone else to declare war to deplete their units down to where their economy levels out, THEN take their overly-fortified cities with a surprise attack from behind.

For some of these strategies, it would be nice if the AI gave a crap about "honor" like it does in Civ games, and SMAC, and GalCiv and so on. That's pretty complex coding though so I understand why it hasn't been added yet.