[Suggestion] Monster/Enemy Lairs

from Elemental Forums

So most know as the game progresses more and more monsters/enemies start spawning...not a bad mechanic on it's own but I would really like to see the idea improved.  Right now it feels too random and I think that takes away from the overall feeling of the game.

Would I would love to see:

-Instead of just randomly spawning enemies, have a a spawn point for them.  So for instance bears would have a cave, spiders have a web, dragons a cave/mountain/ect, and whatever else makes sense for a particular monster/enemy.

-These 'spawn points' would continue to slowly create monsters unless destroyed, the rate of which is determined by turn #, adventure level, or other various factors.

-Destroying a spawn point would be similar to taking a town, simply move the sovereign over it to attack.  Maybe have a similar battle on a special map (like town sieges now except you see the cave/mountain/web/whatever) or even have some special named monster.  Like to destroy the web you have to kill the spider queen.

-Maybe have each spawn point have a chance of producing an item/resource when destroyed, so for instance after killing the spider queen have a dialog pop open stating "...in the web you find a magic shield from a once brave warrior who fell to the insidious spider queen".

-Obviously the spawn points need to keep respawning at a reasonable pace, and when they do maybe we can get messages like "...our scouts have discovered a spider nest in the northwest region near X city".  There's already similar messages in the game so I think it's possible.

-The longer you leave a spawn point unattended to, the stronger the enemies it produces gets.  So while initially they can be ignored for more pressing issues, after a while they will need to be dealt with.

-This wouldn't completely replace the system though...merely add to it.  Random roaming monsters can still spawn.

That's it I guess...I think this would give the spawn system a bit more flavor and make handling the riff raff more structured and a lot cooler then what it currently is.  I also think it adds the the RPG vibe of elemental and makes the player feel like they are going on little missions rather then simply cleaning up random monster spawns.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

This was initially discussed at great length during the beta,   with spawn points hiding darker and nastier things at each level, or being able to. So you might wipe out the spider nest, only  to discover that the spiders were only there to feed off the escaping hobgoblins from deeper down in the cave, which when you beat them turn out to be the slave labor camps for a troll infestation further down who work all day and night to keep the demon lord at the bottom of the cave appeased.

Sometimes destroying a spawn point gets you cool stuff, sometimes it gets you cool stuff and a huge headache.   and if you leave one alone long enough neutral adventures will go and clear it out, take the cool stuff, and leave you with the mess what lies below.

However it never happened, 
Anybody know why?

Robbie Price

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh wasn't in beta...anyways hope something like this get's patched in somewhere down the line.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah I agree completely with the original post and Robbie's addendum. This would add much to the game's world richness.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Aye ... and personally I think that the "spawn chance" for new lairs should increase as lairs get destroyed.

(not immediately, of course, but the longer time passes without new lairs being spawned, the greater the chance increases)

 

So for instance ... you could avidly destroy all the lairs, and only have to deal with new lairs one at a time, maybe once every 10 turns (and thats if you control the world/ world-wide) ...

Yet ... the more that time passes, eventually the lair spawn rate will increase until a "reasonable number" has been achieved.

 

New lairs shouldn't technically spawn new monsters right away ... so even if you were keeping up with killing lairs, and then suddenly stopped, you would have a good 50 - 100 turns of relative safety from monsters. (they'd still spawn "guardian lurkers" but nothing that would roam near civilization)

Of course, Cities that have nice Walls will pretty much not have to worry about most spawns ... as even bandits shouldn't be able to attack a City wall in low numbers/ lack of siege. Only powerful spawns will be a threat to cities during the late game.

 

You could almost think about such lairs as "instances" ... only they have a hefty recharge rate.

Obviously a percentage of these lairs could lead to nastier lairs, or simply (if failed attempt) an angry "Lair-Leader" that gathers an army of beasts and starts attacking cities/ resources.

 

Meanwhile, all these NPC adventurers keep spawning ... at the beginning of the game they would primarily spawn in the wilds, but slowly they would start spawning in Owned cities ... until almost all NPCs were "born" in a City. (they wouldn't belong to the city though, still NPCs).

These NPCs would go after the weaker lairs first (following their own AI agenda at a micro level), trying to level up and gather loot. Occasionally they might uncover a big-bad that they can't handle, and that's when the military has to get involved.

But the point is ... that the low-level lairs can (later on) be fully ignored by the Factions, and left for the spawning NPCs to take care of. Obviously, players CAN micro these things, or rather, they COULD select a party of heroes to travel to lair upon lair, in the name of loot and levels. But they don't have to.

Instead, they could just worry about them early-game, clear out as many near-by lairs as possible, build up their defenses, and forget about them (only dealing with rare and large spawns on the MACRO level).

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Goodmorning all.

I actually expanded quite a bit on this idea at https://forums.elementalgame.com/396352 .

Quoting Tasunke, reply 4

Aye ... and personally I think that the "spawn chance" for new lairs should increase as lairs get destroyed.

(not immediately, of course, but the longer time passes without new lairs being spawned, the greater the chance increases)

 

So for instance ... you could avidly destroy all the lairs, and only have to deal with new lairs one at a time, maybe once every 10 turns (and thats if you control the world/ world-wide) ...

Yet ... the more that time passes, eventually the lair spawn rate will increase until a "reasonable number" has been achieved.

 

New lairs shouldn't technically spawn new monsters right away ... so even if you were keeping up with killing lairs, and then suddenly stopped, you would have a good 50 - 100 turns of relative safety from monsters. (they'd still spawn "guardian lurkers" but nothing that would roam near civilization)

I would have a new layer pop every 4 or 5 turns per area the size of an average 3 turn walk.  If you've been keeping your land clean, then suddenly stop (and prevent random adventurer parties from doing the cleaning) it would take about 30 - 45 turns before you would have to worry about wandering monsters again

 

Quoting Tasunke, reply 4

Obviously a percentage of these lairs could lead to nastier lairs, or simply (if failed attempt) an angry "Lair-Leader" that gathers an army of beasts and starts attacking cities/ resources.

 
Meanwhile, all these NPC adventurers keep spawning ... at the beginning of the game they would primarily spawn in the wilds, but slowly they would start spawning in Owned cities ... until almost all NPCs were "born" in a City. (they wouldn't belong to the city though, still NPCs).

These NPCs would go after the weaker lairs first (following their own AI agenda at a micro level), trying to level up and gather loot. Occasionally they might uncover a big-bad that they can't handle, and that's when the military has to get involved.

But the point is ... that the low-level lairs can (later on) be fully ignored by the Factions, and left for the spawning NPCs to take care of. Obviously, players CAN micro these things, or rather, they COULD select a party of heroes to travel to lair upon lair, in the name of loot and levels. But they don't have to.

My system has that AI be the Tavern or Inn AI, Heroes spawn and make their way to an Inn or Tavern, The Inn or tavern has a list of quests. When the Inn has enough equipment and adventures a team or adventure is sent out from the Inn to slay whatever or explore the spawn point.

I would have it so the player CAN'T directly control these events, you can effect them by buying or selling stuff at the Inn, and set down laws to encourage or discourage the behavior, and can even perhaps bribe the adventurers, But ultimately it would be an independent AI doing stuff for it's own reasons.

To keep things simple and codeable I would have all the Inn's be one collective AI, sharing weapons, and rather than track each unit's equipment and money, just track the Inn's and and assume that people leaving are given 'enough stuff' to complete the job.

Quoting Tasunke, reply 4


Instead, they could just worry about them early-game, clear out as many near-by lairs as possible, build up their defenses, and forget about them (only dealing with rare and large spawns on the MACRO level).

 

Deal with the rare and large spawns when the adventures accidentally let the angry dinjin out of the bottle and it's rampaging wild.

 

Robbie Price

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Right ... yea simplifying it would be best for now ... I'm just trying to keep an end-goal in mind (an end goal that at least should be possible on the Elemental platform)

 

But yea, your current implementation would be a great idea for a mod.