Observations from a MoM Fan

Sorry to continue the trend of personal observation threads, but I didn't see any rules against it so here we go.

I loved Master of Magic as a kid, and I continue to play it now after it was released through GoG.  Though this is not a sequel, or even a "spiritual successor" (I don't know the company's position on that view), this game is a MoM replacement for me (not a Civ replacement, but a MoM replacement).

I was concerned about the "epic feel" that people were talking about in the forum, and when I first started I was concerned about these single model units, but once I found you can create squads, I was perfectly happy with it.  I'm also an RTS player, and the major difference between these two genres (besides Real-Time versus Turn-based) is this: I try to get the most out of an RTS with what is given to me, but I try to put the most IN a TBS that my imagination is able to conceive.  So, 1 pop can be either 1 person or 100 people, and it could change from the early game to the late game in my mind, so I don't really care about all that.

I am a bit confused though.  Both the manual and the Hiergammon (is that right?) say that weapons and spells have damage types (cutting, blunt, fire, etc), but nothing in the game seems to represent that and threads here have stated the same.  Was this a dropped feature, is it hidden, will it be patched in? 

As a result of this, magic is not very deep it seems.  Since there is no difference between a Fireball, a Lightning Bolt, or a Boulder, it seems (IMO) that you should either get ALL the magic books or none of them, since you don't know which Shards will spawn in your area (on that note, I have not seen any, what the heck?).  Also, I think a good idea is to take from MoM the spellbook idea: you can be a generalist with 2 of every element book (general but weak), or a Fire Mage with 10 Fire books (powerful, but limited).

I'm also having trouble with Notable Location Level versus Quest Level.  I can do Level 2 (or 3...can't remember) quests, but I can't pick up the Level 3 Treasure Chests.  Which research path is that for?

So far I'm having a ton of fun.  UI can always be improved, but compared to MoM it's much better.  Personally, there are a couple things from MoM I miss, the BIGGEST being my Undead armies: I love that magic/unit line!  Trying to hit enemy units carefully so the zombie can get the last hit and make another zombie is a lot of fun.  Will this spell/unit ever be added in?  Oh yeah, are there mercenaries in this?  I haven't seen any.  I'd love to recruit Halfling slingers again, so overpowered :) .

Edit: one more thing, with a custom sovereign, can you start with equipment?  When I passed an AI sov in the first few turns, he had a sweet looking staff, while I had nothing.  Was there something in the customization that I missed?

17,934 views 27 replies
Reply #1 Top




Edit: one more thing, with a custom sovereign, can you start with equipment?  When I passed an AI sov in the first few turns, he had a sweet looking staff, while I had nothing.  Was there something in the customization that I missed?

End of quote

 

Yes, you can purchase equipment as part of the Sov creation process, on a tab in the same menu you assign clothing and stuff.

However, it is probably a far better use of those points to put towards permanent stats for your sov, since you can just buy equipment and will outgrow it. Equipment purchased during Sov creation are wasted points.

Reply #2 Top

So far I'm having a ton of fun.  UI can always be improved, but compared to MoM it's much better.  Personally, there are a couple things from MoM I miss, the BIGGEST being my Undead armies: I love that magic/unit line!  Trying to hit enemy units carefully so the zombie can get the last hit and make another zombie is a lot of fun.  Will this spell/unit ever be added in?  Oh yeah, are there mercenaries in this?  I haven't seen any.  I'd love to recruit Halfling slingers again, so overpowered
End of quote

Truth=( I miss having very diverse fantasy races.

Reply #3 Top

Yes, as an Old Fart who played MOM ever since it came out, I also miss the very different races. Maybe they'll be added, shouldn't be too difficult. (Add-ons, here we come!)

 

I also like your idea of adding the magic power to the game - define how much of each one you have, instead of only turning each type on or off.

 

Lvl 3 treasure chests: do some more research into adventure - the number you see on the map has nothing to do with your 'normal' level.

 

Ciao,

Klaus

Reply #4 Top

Quoting KlausBreuer, reply 3


I also like your idea of adding the magic power to the game - define how much of each one you have, instead of only turning each type on or off.
End of KlausBreuer's quote

Yeah - there's no strategy whatsoever here.  Even Brad gives this away in one of the video tutorials when creating a custom leader; he says something about "I like to just take them all" in regards to the magic books.  And all the default leaders have all the books.  Kind of makes magic one-dimensional.  I want leaders to specialize, or pay a price to generalize.  There needs to be some distinction.

Reply #5 Top

Thinking more about this.... since magic was "lost" in the cataclysm, maybe ALL the books of magic (except maybe light/dark or whatever they're called) should have to be researched like Summoning is now.  This would create a cost-benefit choice that actually requires some strategic thinking on the part of the player.  If this were added in, would the AI be able to handle it?  Could this be modded?

Reply #6 Top

The TS has a point, ideally it would be nice to have different damage type and resistances to a different damage types for different units/creatures , same for the magic. And this thing better be shown both in train and combat screens.

 

Reply #7 Top

Regarding the Magic books the cost maybe should be increased,now its 3 points i think,maybe up it to 5?

So that u cant take all of them from the start.As said earlier it makes magic a bit OP  if all heroes  can have all schools from turn 1.

Reply #8 Top

Yeah I miss the diverse races too.  My favorite race was the Draconian race in MoM.  The game also feels kind of incomplete without the elves and beast races too.  Of course this isn't MoM.

Reply #9 Top

I don't believe Brad or anyone from Stardock ever said they were making Master of Magic II? I believe he said he had taken ELEMENTS from many of them an incorporated them into Elemental. So everything from Master of Magic isn't going to be in this game, nor Age of Wonders, nor HOMM and all the rest. I think he did a very good job incorporating them this much this far. He had to make limits somewheres for each game. People really should stop comparing what is left out from those previous games an accept what is IN the game from them. Play it as it is intended not what you wished it was.

Reply #10 Top

You should register with Impluse and download the patches.  Each spell is subtly different.

Reply #11 Top

I agree, the magic book costs should be higher. Researching/acquiring them shouldn't be as easy as it's now - I'm referring to that tech that gives Summoning, Restoration and some third school, and it's really easy to get. Imo tech/spellbook, and some if not all spellbooks should require a quest or goodie hut also. Atm spell books don't really exist in any practical sense, especially as the spells are all so similar, boring, and often really weak.

Reply #12 Top

I realize that from a MoM perspective you guys want to make the schools more exclusive, but trying to say having them all makes heroes OP seems like quite a stretch. These magic schools are not nearly as comprehensive as MoM was. I made a hero with access to only earth, water, enchantment and summoning (pre-nerf). For the first 5 spell levels I could barely find a spell I really liked. Only the nature's ally was any real value to me. In MoM it was many times preferrable to just fill all your spell books with one school. This depth to a spell school just does not exist in this game from what I've seen so far, which admittedly, is not a lot.

Reply #13 Top

This is a totally off-topic question, but since you mentioned that you play GoG's version of MoM: Does it work in Windows 7, too?

Reply #14 Top

Yes, the spellbooks not only shallow, but lack any distinct 'feel'. in MoM Nature indeed felt different then chaos or life or death. Here spells are similar to each other but with different names 

Reply #16 Top

One word - DOSBox if you would like to run MoM on W7
End of quote

http://www.illustrious-software.co.uk/showpage.php?page=clonemain

Reply #17 Top

I second your thought OP.

 

Right now the tactical spells could be labeled as "Generic Damage Spell 1" and "Generic Damage Spell 2".

 

The lack of varied damage and defense types for magic and melee is pretty awful and should be high on the list of things to fix.

Reply #18 Top

My favorite is when you actually own some shards (I have 3 in my current game due to dumb freaking luck of the draw) and spells in those school still hit like a wet paper towel.  Nothing like a single target spell that's supposed to hit for up to 68 damage *regularly* doing under 10 on level 1 creatures...

Reply #19 Top

Yes, MoM from GOG works with Windows 7 - I have it. Although, it also runs fine with dosbox on Windows 7. And, I think that the GOG version launches MOM via Dosbox (I'm not 100% sure on this, I'll try it when I get home).

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Dethedrus, reply 18
My favorite is when you actually own some shards (I have 3 in my current game due to dumb freaking luck of the draw) and spells in those school still hit like a wet paper towel.  Nothing like a single target spell that's supposed to hit for up to 68 damage *regularly* doing under 10 on level 1 creatures...
End of Dethedrus's quote

It could always be bad luck - with the way the system rolls for damage now, it's just 1-68; 1 and 34 and 68 are all equally likely (or maybe it's 0-68, was never really sure). It'd be better if it calculated in a way that favors the middle range over extremes, making 34 more likely than 1 or 68; i.e. 2 rolls of 0-34 or 4 rolls of 0-17 instead of one roll of 0-68. There are of course other, more complicated calculations to accomplish the same thing ('normal' distribution), but the main idea is just to make damage more consistent and less frustratingly random.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Scfs123, reply 2
Truth=( I miss having very diverse fantasy races.
End of Scfs123's quote

+1

Quoting KlausBreuer, reply 3
I also like your idea of adding the magic power to the game - define how much of each one you have, instead of only turning each type on or off.
End of KlausBreuer's quote

+1

 

Reply #22 Top

Sorry to continue the trend of personal observation threads, but I didn't see any rules against it so here we go.

I'm also having trouble with Notable Location Level versus Quest Level.  I can do Level 2 (or 3...can't remember) quests, but I can't pick up the Level 3 Treasure Chests.  Which research path is that for?

End of quote

This is a bit vague when first playing. You have to read the descriptions of the techs themselves, not just the summary on the right. Some techs raise your quest level, some your notable locations level, and others open more resources (food, gold). If you check out the kingdom report, on the right hand page it lists what the "world"'s notable, and quest locations are, and what your level is. Kingdoms and Empires seem to differ a bit here for research, but essentially works the same.

 EDIT: Doh...all of them are in the adventure tree.

Reply #23 Top

Quoting greywar, reply 17
I second your thought OP.

 

Right now the tactical spells could be labeled as "Generic Damage Spell 1" and "Generic Damage Spell 2".

 

The lack of varied damage and defense types for magic and melee is pretty awful and should be high on the list of things to fix.
End of greywar's quote

 

They're working on it. We already had the generic damage spell for water replaced with the slightly more interesting ice spike, and hurl boulder now ignores the target's armour.

 

Weapon damage types are in there but they're simply not shown. Just like it's unclear how much of the defence represents difficulty to hit as opposed to armour protection.

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Kravick3, reply 8
Yeah I miss the diverse races too.  My favorite race was the Draconian race in MoM.  The game also feels kind of incomplete without the elves and beast races too.  Of course this isn't MoM.
End of Kravick3's quote

Glad it's not just me, I think it's a  game with bags of potential but I'd really like to see a mod that gave races real distinct flavours, like the draconian's flying abilities or the troll's regeneration.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Archonsod, reply 23

Quoting greywar, reply 17I second your thought OP.

 


 

Weapon damage types are in there but they're simply not shown. Just like it's unclear how much of the defence represents difficulty to hit as opposed to armour protection.
End of Archonsod's quote

 

I know the manual says they are in there but in game experiments seem to show that the game engine was never given this ability. Right now the combat calcs are just ATK vd Def in geneeric round terms

 

If the devs did put something in there for it it never shows up and they need to do a far better job of it than they have.

 

Either it isn't in or it is broken to the point that being there doesn't matter.