First thoughts from early play

The UI really could use a lot of polish- it's exceedingly unforgiving, and the manual is pretty bad at showing startup.  I also found what appeared to be a bug.

 

I jumped into a campaign, and here's a few of the first things I ran into.

1.  Got control of my units, went to go found a city.  Looked up the hotkey for founding a city in the manual, used hotkey repeatedly in several locations, nothing happened.  No city was founded, no message was displayed.  Eventually, after wasting several turns wandering around attempting to found cities in different areas, I explored over to an area where there was a 3rd unit, and after talking to that fellow, the game allowed me to found a city. What's up with the lack of feedback?

 

2.  After founding my initial city, I notice that there's a spider lurking nearby.  I stack together a few units, and go attack it, and win, though I lost a few units.  I notice there's a second (much smaller) spider wandering nearby. I attempt to go fight it, but the game won't let me.  Once again, NO FEEDBACK.  It won't tell me why I cannot engage it in combat. 

 

3.  I attempt to engage "autoexplore" for a unit.  Nothing happens.  No feedback.  I fiddle around with another unit, same result.

 

4.  I save the game, exit, and go back in.  The "Load" button is greyed out.  I panic.  Where did my save games go??  After several exits, looking around on my hard drive and determining that there were in fact, save games on my hard drive,  I go back into the game.  Eventually I find that campaign save games only show up after clicking "Campaign" again.

5.  Back into the game.  I finally figure out that I'm unable to fight the enemies because I haven't equipped a weapon.  Auto explore now works, but I have no idea why it wouldnt work previously.

 

Other things which are missing critical UI information:

1.  So far as I can tell, there's no way to tell how far a unit has already moved.  There's also no way to see how far a unit CAN move before it will be out of movement.  AoW: SM handled this by having you click two times- once to show you a path, and it would show you how far you could move with a "trail" the first time you clicked, and the second time you clicked, the unit would actually move.  Not being able to tell how far a unit has already moved is a pretty amazing oversight.

2.  There's VERY little feedback about when a turn ends.  The only indicator is a tiny turn indicator at the top right of the screen.  There is no confirmation dialog- seeing as both "spacebar" and "enter" will end a turn, it seems you could easily hit one by accident, and there should be more of an indicator when a new turn starts.

 

I have really high hopes for this,  I hope that we see some serious UI updates in the early patches.  The "ease of use" on Elemental leaves a TON to be desired so far.

 

21,857 views 20 replies
Reply #1 Top

You're over reacting the game UI is fine. But, it's going to have bugs and stuff that's to be expected if you didn't expect them then you're a moron. You also can desire TONS of things but I doubt you will get them all without modding the game yourself. It's made to sell to a wide audience not just one individual.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 1
You're over reacting the game UI is fine. But, it's going to have bugs and stuff that's to be expected if you didn't expect them then you're a moron. You also can desire TONS of things but I doubt you will get them all without modding the game yourself. It's made to sell to a wide audience not just one individual.
End of rossanderson48's quote

Buttons not working and then suddenly working later for no reason is not "over reacting". It's a problem.

This was a pretty good feedback post, what's with the fanboy response?

Reply #3 Top

Take off your fanboi glasses.  I'm not talking about gameplay features.  I'm asking for BASIC INFORMATION which is required to know what the hell is going on, which isn't provided.  And your point about selling to a "wide audience" is bollocks, as 90% of the "wider audience" is going to be lost, peeved, and likely to put the game away and not come back when it doesn't tell them what's going on.

Reply #4 Top

I think you are overreacting.

Reply #5 Top

He is not a moron for putting out basic problems, do we have a bug thread somewhere for people? (New to forum sorry)

Reply #6 Top

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 1
You're over reacting the game UI is fine. But, it's going to have bugs and stuff that's to be expected if you didn't expect them then you're a moron. You also can desire TONS of things but I doubt you will get them all without modding the game yourself. It's made to sell to a wide audience not just one individual.
End of rossanderson48's quote

 

Jeez what is with these fanboys flipping out when people type well-thought of posts of the problems they are having?

 

Edit: I've noticed the problem with auto-explore too. It doesn't work sometimes, even when I have a weapon equipped.

Reply #8 Top

According to BoogieBac in another thread, they're putting in a lot more new-player-friendly information into the campaign. I can't attest to button funkyness, but hopefully it should help to let you know how stuff works.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 7
I guess it's because I use MY BRAIN to figure out how to play games instead of crying to MOMMY MOMMY MY GAME WON'T WORK WAAAAAH QQ boohoo

I hardly ever and rarely open a manual to find out how to play a game. Most of them are just too intuitive even this one. But, if I don't know something I just ASK HOW TO not go QQing or CRYING the game is messed up blah blah blah.
End of rossanderson48's quote

Why don't you just go play the game with your intuitive brain and let the rest communicate some well-meant suggestions to better the gaming experience for the non-intuitive crowd? Some people...  :|

Reply #10 Top

I'm not writing about this because I cannot figure stuff out- I'm providing feedback because I know there are other people out there who either cannot or won't be interested enough to expend the effort to figure things out, and I want to see this game be as successful as it possibly can.  

I eventually figured most of the things out, but I'm looking at a number of things with horror thinking "What would a reviewer write about this?  What would someone who bought this game at best buy think about this?"  and "What would this mean for sales?".  See,  I want stardock around to create MORE games which I'll love.  And I want to see Stardock be successful creating these games, because I want to see OTHER developers given the opportunity to create games like this- if sales of THESE games aren't good, Publishers won't even give developers the opportunity to pitch Turn Based Strategy games.

On a completely different note,  I had one HIGHLY subjective reaction to the early game.  As soon as the merchant opened, one of the first things I bought were.... shoes.  And they were CHEAP.  Now, I have to say, additional movement is REALLY useful.  Usually something which grants additional movement is very expensive, and you don't get it until you're a good ways into a game. 

So, my reaction upon seeing boots for sale first off? 

"My god, I have to buy the characters SHOES?  Will I have to choose between Boxers & Briefs, lest they chafe, as well?"

 

Reply #11 Top

Love the game. Love it, love it, love it.

Wanna see a little more UI polish. I also want to see more graphics on the development screen and a lot more content in expansions. They've made the board, now I want to see a lot more playing pieces!

Reply #12 Top

Ross, I like the game, but they're right. If a hotkey does not work, it means something is broken. Broken things should not be things you're required to adapt to, they should be something that is fixed. He's a new player voicing his opinions on how he feels the game is presented. In all honesty, if he's someone capable enough to get to these forums and make a well written post (emphasis on HIM (as opposed to you) writing a well written post) on how the game is very new user UNfriendly, then it very likely is. 

OR, you could be right, and the first 3 hours of playtime during a game should be figuring out what works, what doesn't, and what you're doing. Because hey, that's fun right?

-_-

Reply #13 Top

the campaign sucks. there's no strategy or anything - just spam units, pass the turns, and go from location X on the map to location Y. the story is meh and writing is boring, and 95% of the world is just plain empty and lifeless.

i truly hope the "skirmish" game is better. the campaign really turned me down up to now.

Reply #14 Top

I've actually been playing computer games going all the way back to the original Zork- so I'm no rank newbie.  I'll figure this game out, but I'm wasting time figuring out things which should be obvious.  The last game I played which had such a steep learning curve... was MoO3.  I stuck with that one, and eventually grew to love it, but it took a ton of work to get there, and I recall how horribly that bombed on sales.  I don't want Stardock suffering the same fate.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Ikarius_rb, reply 15
I've actually been playing computer games going all the way back to the original Zork- so I'm no rank newbie.  I'll figure this game out, but I'm wasting time figuring out things which should be obvious.  The last game I played which had such a steep learning curve... was MoO3.  I stuck with that one, and eventually grew to love it, but it took a ton of work to get there, and I recall how horribly that bombed on sales.  I don't want Stardock suffering the same fate.
End of Ikarius_rb's quote

 

Well I don't think what happened to MoO3 (which I also like a lot, now, after the player made fixes) will happen to Elemental, because SD is not QS, and there is no Atari to call the shots (I hope).

 

Though I agree that this release is proving to be more problematic than I hoped it would be.  It's as though the releases of GC2 and DG taught SD nothing.  Oh well, we all know the game will get the love and support it needs from SD to get where it needs to go.  The question is how long are people going to continue to subsidize this kind of release.  You know, fool me once... fool me twice and I'll stop preordering?

 

Reply #16 Top

The question is how long are people going to continue to subsidize this kind of release.  You know, fool me once... fool me twice and I'll stop preordering?
End of quote

It will never stop really. If we had a static population of game consumers then it might. But, as long as there is an influx of NEW gamers (which there are every single day) then they don't have to worry about old customers because there are new ones to replace you. Plus as long as the trend continues to FIX and IMPROVE and ADD to the games people get over their initial anger. Look at MOOIII for example. The other thing about Stardock is games are a sideline not their main income. So, they can do pretty much what they want with their games. And that is a good thing because they love their games and are dedicated to making them as best as they can be IN THE LONG TERM. Galciv wasn't that great in the beginning and neither was Galciv 2. But, I bought everyone of them and have enjoyed what I got and they still remain on my hard drives.

Paradox has proven you can release a bug filled terrible game (practically every release they've had) and still have a huge fanbase and customers. Why? Because the DO FIX their games in the LONG TERM. SO doesn't really matter when they release as long as they fix them. Consumers allowed this to happen. You allowed it if you bought retail from them and myself and everybody else. Since 1998 games have been being released in shoddy states. I don't know of a single game since then that didn't have to have a patch that I bought. But, the trend now is games require more and more patches and fixes than ever before. They are just seeing how far they can push us and still buy their products. You will never stop them individually only the masses will but for now it's the trend and it's working.

Reply #17 Top


1.  Got control of my units, went to go found a city.  Looked up the hotkey for founding a city in the manual, used hotkey repeatedly in several locations, nothing happened.  No city was founded, no message was displayed.

End of quote

I think this is a bug. I had a similar issue with a pioneer trying to build too close to another city. I knew it wouldn't work, but rather than the "You must be X tiles from another city" message I got the "name your city" and then nothing happened. I suspect the pop ups are broken somewhere.

5.  Back into the game.  I finally figure out that I'm unable to fight the enemies because I haven't equipped a weapon.  Auto explore now works, but I have no idea why it wouldnt work previously.

End of quote


Yeah, that's irritating. Particularly when you want to go and fireball a spider to death. The only other reason I've found for combat not taking place is that you're out of movement.

Reply #18 Top

Informative and well put- except the caps. Please don't use caps to attempt to reinforce a point, it merely makes it seem like you are shouting. Italics work a lot better. And if I think so, it must be the objective truth of the physical universe.

 

Anyway, I hope there's some sort of indicator for how much farther a unit can travel in one turn by the time I start playing.

Reply #19 Top

Anyone who says that the interface is fine are blinded by fanboyism or simply don't care about interfaces.