[Customization] Race Maker / Creature Editor Based on Building Editor.

Make it so number 1 !!!!

Who hasn't seen the Elemental Building Editor yet? If you haven't there's a Pic of it in the Media section. Get an eye full here...

Now, here's what I'm thinking....

Make another one of those only instead of building pieces have Body Parts. It doesn't need to be complicated. It doesn't need to scale and grow like "Spore". Nothing nearly that complex. Just some boxes with some body parts we can "pop" on and off. It's real easy for Modders to make body parts when compared to making a whole new 3D model as well. With the lay out of the games current editors I really think this is the way to go.

Have a moderate selection of heads, one that's a lizard, one that's a cat or a dog, one human, one with pointy ears. Same with torso and legs and arms. Also have a few boxes for different sets of wings, angel or demon, and a few boxes for tails, like a dragon's tail or a cat's tail.

Keep it simple. It doesn't need to have a 1,000 different parts. Maybe 10 or 20 would handle most people's needs and then modders could make the rest.

Thoughts?

22,022 views 25 replies
Reply #1 Top

This would aid the modding community no end, and even allow us casual players to expand the game further. In principle I like the idea of custom races.

Reply #2 Top

Like I've said in a previous reply, it would be awesome to have an editor like this, but 2 important questions must be answered firstly:

1. Is this Havok engine capable for something like this at all?

2.  Will the various armor pieces be able to mold themselves to various torsos / body parts, or are they relatively fixed 3D objects that get laid over the model?

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 2
Like I've said in a previous reply, it would be awesome to have an editor like this, but 2 important questions must be answered firstly:

1. Is this Havok engine capable for something like this at all?

2.  Will the various armor pieces be able to mold themselves to various torsos / body parts, or are they relatively fixed 3D objects that get laid over the model?
End of Tormy-'s quote

1 A) Yes indeed my friend, Havok is more then capable. Just look at the building editor there. ;)

2 A) The engine can blow up or shrink the armor models to match the body models. Something like "display size =1" or whatever the size of the character is. With everything they have so far in principle this shouldn't be too hard. Keep it limited to a handful of decent "Parts" and there doesn't even need to be any custom animations really. All the heads in game have the same animation no matter what it looks like. All the arms and legs can follow the same animations no matter what they look like. Keep it simple.

They like simple. The simpler it is the more likely of chance we can get them to do it ;)

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Raven, reply 3


1 A) Yes indeed my friend, Havok is more then capable. Just look at the building editor there.

End of Raven's quote

Oh, so the building editor is using Havok? I thought it's using the Kumquat engine. Pardon my ignorance. :X

Hmmm...however the building "models" are not animated in the same way like the creature models. The buildings are static compared to those. I don't know...I am clueless. :D

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 4



Quoting Raven X,
reply 3


1 A) Yes indeed my friend, Havok is more then capable. Just look at the building editor there.




Oh, so the building editor is using Havok? I thought it's using the Kumquat engine. Pardon my ignorance.

Hmmm...however the building "models" are not animated in the same way like the creature models. The buildings are static compared to those. I don't know...I am clueless.
End of Tormy-'s quote

I don't know if the building engine is using Havok or not, no need to be excused. Perhaps I miss-understood what you meant using Havok as an example. I still can't see why it would have a problem with something like this though as the same principle applies to this that applies to the Building Editor shown above.

Reply #6 Top

I am all for as much race customization as possible, but the way I see it, if Elemental goes this way I think we'll be disappointed. The problem is that a "race editor" with "body parts"like building blocks will probably not make good-looking creatures. And it certainly not will make creatures made with "soul", that feels right, done with art skills and some class. I would hate if the races would be downgraded to a spore-like add-on in an editor which is not even included in the core game and campaign.

Considering the apparent limited resources avilable for races in elemental, I would prefer that SD skips 2-3 core factions (the "Diplomats" certainly don't sound very exciting) and instead works out 2-3 non-cannon factions/race models, like lizardmen or something with wings. And what is wrong with wanting to play Galadriel in war against Sauron anyway! 

The more I think about it, the more I feel the basic premises of the game are wrong. The way this is going, I think it will be fully up to the modding community to try to make Elemental meet D&D and all our beloved fantasy novels/stories, like Conan or Covenant ... :(  What a missed opportunity.   

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Raven, reply 5



Quoting Tormy-,
reply 4



Quoting Raven X,
reply 3


1 A) Yes indeed my friend, Havok is more then capable. Just look at the building editor there.




Oh, so the building editor is using Havok? I thought it's using the Kumquat engine. Pardon my ignorance.

Hmmm...however the building "models" are not animated in the same way like the creature models. The buildings are static compared to those. I don't know...I am clueless.



I don't know if the building engine is using Havok or not, no need to be excused. Perhaps I miss-understood what you meant using Havok as an example. I still can't see why it would have a problem with something like this though as the same principle applies to this that applies to the Building Editor shown above.
End of Raven's quote

Well, if the building editor is using Havok, it should be possible to make a creature creator like what you've suggested. If it's using the Kumquat engine, we can't be sure that Havok is capable of this or not. This is what I meant. Even if it would be possible to make a creature creator like this, it would take a lot of work to make it probably...perhaps this could be shipped with an expansion. :thumbsup:

Quoting the, reply 6
The problem is that a "race editor" with "body parts"like building blocks will probably not make good-looking creatures. And it certainly not will make creatures made with "soul", that feels right, done with art skills and some class.
End of the's quote

You are just guessing, and I'm not sure that guessing could bring you to an acceptable level of confidence. :)

Reply #8 Top

Quoting the, reply 6
I am all for as much race customization as possible, but the way I see it, if Elemental goes this way I think we'll be disappointed. The problem is that a "race editor" with "body parts"like building blocks will probably not make good-looking creatures. And it certainly not will make creatures made with "soul", that feels right, done with art skills and some class. I would hate if the races would be downgraded to a spore-like add-on in an editor which is not even included in the core game and campaign.

Considering the apparent limited resources available for races in elemental, I would prefer that SD skips 2-3 core factions (the "Diplomats" certainly don't sound very exciting) and instead works out 2-3 non-cannon factions/race models, like lizardmen or something with wings. And what is wrong with wanting to play Galadriel in war against Sauron anyway! 

The more I think about it, the more I feel the basic premises of the game are wrong. The way this is going, I think it will be fully up to the modding community to try to make Elemental meet D&D and all our beloved fantasy novels/stories, like Conan or Covenant ...  What a missed opportunity.   
End of the's quote

I understand your fear Gorgon, but I see things a little different having some knowledge of how these systems work. 3D modeling of this nature is all about wire frames and animations. Lets take "Torso's" for example. If they make 3 (and really we only need 3) One that's a normal human, one that's a little shorter and stockier, and one that's a little elongated and thiner, all of them use the same wire frame animation and there's no reason why they don't need to not use the same animation. The same applies for arms. One arm is longer and skinnier, one is bulkier, and one is shorter. All the arms move the same way though. They bend in the same places and have joints in the same places and all have the same animation. Swinging a sword is the same whether it's a green bulky arms swinging it or a slender skinny arms swinging it. Changing a model is just as easy as changing a skin as long as you're using a standard animation. Once you make the models in pieces they all become interchangeable.

Bottom line, to me at least, any customization of this nature, Any At All, is better then None. It doesn't have to be complex or hard. It just has to be there. That's my (and others) opinion anyway. Hopefully my limited explanation of how the programs work cleared things up a bit.

Quoting Tormy-, reply 7

Well, if the building editor is using Havok, it should be possible to make a creature creator like what you've suggested. If it's using the Kumquat engine, we can't be sure that Havok is capable of this or not. This is what I meant. Even if it would be possible to make a creature creator like this, it would take a lot of work to make it probably...perhaps this could be shipped with an expansion.
End of Tormy-'s quote

"A lot of work" would be a opinion there my friend. If they already have the basis to work from it wouldn't take long at all. The longest part would be the few days it would take a modeler to make a hand full of parts. They already have the animations because they'll need them for the 3D Battle Engine. If you've ever done any 3D modeling or skinning you'd know what I mean. Once you make one "Arm" and get it working with the animation, making new arms that use that same animation isn't hard at all or even that time consuming. I could probably pump out 3 or 4 "Arms" in a day provided the animations were done for me.

Reply #9 Top

I like the idea Raven X. In regards to Havok it is not a graphics engine. It is a physics engine that comes in several parts. I believe the only part Stardock is using currently is the animation portion. Hence Havok has absolutely no impact on them creating an in depth race creator. It would have an impact on the ease and quality of making the animations for game objects / entities in general. Also I find it very unlikely that Stardock is going to tax the Havok physics engine given what I've seen it do in other games. A TBS wouldn't be high up on my list of games that have computer crushing physics calculations.  ^_^

 

Havok animation Example

Reply #10 Top

Dark, what kinds of programming experience do you have? Interested in helping out on the Dragonlance Mod?

That's an excellent example by the way. That's exactly what I mean. All those animations are exactly the same. They didn't program those individually, they programmed one and applied it to all the wire-frames. Well done indeed pointing that out.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Darkodinplus, reply 9
In regards to Havok it is not a graphics engine. It is a physics engine that comes in several parts. I believe the only part Stardock is using currently is the animation portion. Hence Havok has absolutely no impact on them creating an in depth race creator.
End of Darkodinplus's quote

Thanks for the information. So basically this is "doable" indeed. :thumbsup:

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 11

Thanks for the information. So basically this is "doable" indeed.
End of Tormy-'s quote

Yes...Yes!! Go forth my minion and spread the word that this is indeed "doable". Let it be heard through all the lands so that the people might rise up in a single voice. Let it be that the Mighty Stardock may hear their anguished cries and grant us the Godly Powers of CUSTOMIZATION!!!! Mwhahahaha!!!!

}:)  

 

;)  :thumbsup:

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Raven X:

I understand your fear Gorgon, but I see things a little different having some knowledge of how these systems work.
End of quote

It is true, I have no in-depth knowledge of how they work, so I hope you are right and the system could deliver some nice creatures. And I agree 100% that a body part editor is much better than nothing. What I tried to convey was more overall the feeling that, hey, here we are launching a new fantasy game including a race editor, but the game is not using it. If a lot of extra work is put on the core factions, it could be that your own factions will feel very bland in comparison ... That was why personally  I would even prefer SD to skip one or two core factions if it would free up some serious resources for customization. At least in the beginning, customization was sort of one of the buzz words for E. We'll see how it goes.  

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Raven, reply 10
Dark, what kinds of programming experience do you have? Interested in helping out on the Dragonlance Mod?
End of Raven's quote

I doubt I'll have the necessary free time Raven or I would consider it.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Darkodinplus, reply 14

I doubt I'll have the necessary free time Raven or I would consider it.
End of Darkodinplus's quote

I can solve that easy, man. What's taking up your time? Work, School, Family, Girlfriend? I can always put out a "Hit" on the wife and kids...maybe see to it your girlfriend breaks up with you. I can always burn down your job or school too!!! Whatever it takes so I get the help I'll need with Python, it's all good. Just say the word ;)

hehe...j/k...mostly :P ;)

Reply #16 Top

I love the suggestion by the original poster. *dusting my old D&D games looking for my long lost pictures of my favorite PCs*. ( I am glad there is no Dungeon master in Elemental). I can customize my units any way I like ( I hope 8C )

Reply #17 Top

I don't post much on this forum, but I check it everyday, over and over.  This is an absolute must.  In my opinion this could be one of the most fun things to do (creating races and neutrals)  Please make this.

 

Reply #18 Top

Brad said it probably wouldn't make it in the initial release, but that it's something they are definitely looking at. Maybe it'll end up being in one of the major updates post-launch. Fine by me if they don't add it till post launch, just so long as they add it. It's definitely a very cool idea and would add that much more to the already superb customization options. Part of creating ones own "fantasy world" which we've been promised the ability to do. Is to add ones own fantasy races to said world.

Reply #19 Top

The creature editor, more than any other editor, is where I would spend most of my time.  There is such a wealth of creatures that could be created based on myth, D&D, etc.  I realize that Stardock would probably have to spend a significant amount of time to add parts, animations, and other stuff to make a viable editor.  Ideally, it would work like the ship editor in GalCiv2 with hundreds of varied parts, but the main problem would be working out the kinks in the animations (I assume). 

Even if we can't get it by the initial release, I really hope that this is something Stardock focuses on for an update or expansion. 

Reply #20 Top

Quoting TS22, reply 19


Even if we can't get it by the initial release, I really hope that this is something Stardock focuses on for an update or expansion. 

End of TS22's quote

I absolutely agree! :)

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 20

Quoting TS22, reply 19

Even if we can't get it by the initial release, I really hope that this is something Stardock focuses on for an update or expansion. 


I absolutely agree!
End of Tormy-'s quote

Yeah, I agree. A creature editor is a MUST-HAVE (even if it takes months after launch to come out)

Reply #22 Top

*Bump*

I really hope we can get something like this later on down the road.

Reply #24 Top

I don't know how I missed this before, but I love the idea!

Reply #25 Top

I like the idea but they will have to make the kingdom editor more in-depth.  As it is now they really only allow you to change the kingdom name, color and give a few advantages and disadvantages.  They need to allow players an "advanced" mode that gives the ability to set different building appearances for their kingdom's buildings first and if they add the "race maker" then use that as well to determine the kingdom's race.  As it is I think they need to start with letting us have control over our cities appearance for our custom kingdoms first.