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JOBS ILLEGALS WOULDN'T DO

JOBS ILLEGALS WOULDN'T DO

In December of 1971 I got out of the Army after seven years active duty and three months Reserve. The "New Action Army" was to be made up of all volunteers. And a lot of the traditional controls and routines were being cast aside in favor of a more comfortable Army...comfortable for the pogues that drifted into it...not for those responsible for herding them. But that is grist for another mill. We left Fort Hood, Texas and moved to Phoenix, AZ. I am not sure what I expected, but it sure wasn't what I got.

My first job was as an instructor at the Arizona School of Driving. The school offered a 15-hour course of instruction. But not contracted; a student could quit at any time. It was the instructor's responsibility to keep selling the course so the student got the "full benefit" of it. Most people can pass a driving test after six or seven hours and see no need to do more. The school kept the first 23 1/2 hours of each week's take and the instructor got the rest. When you consider the scheduling difficulties, cancellations, and drop-outs, you could spend sixty or seventy hours trying to get your 23.5 hours in...and not earn a dime, either. Instructors learned to overbook and double-up and other techniques the school strictly forbade. It sucked. Inside of six months I became a senior instructor...a trainer...and the recipient of all the hard cases no one else wanted to train. I gave the school forty hours a week for nothing but kept everything I made on students beyond forty. Some deal, huh? It was like I was earning my living in my spare time.

I left there and went to work at Associated Grocers...a Co-Op warehouse operation that serviced Fry's, Lucky's, Smitty's and several other food sellers in the Valley of the Sun. I was a loading dock worker; a "temporary" non-union filler. I could only work three weeks out of a month without joining the Union, and only a select few were allowed to join. The pay was only about 3/4s of the union scale but it was still better than the driving school. It was beyond measure the hardest work I ever did in my life.

Every morning the boxcars would roll in on the railroad spur. Usually all but three or four of them would fit inside the warehouse. The rest would sit out in the sun. The dock extended out far enough that we could have easy access to them, but by nine o'clock the outside temperature would be closing in on triple digits and inside the boxcars that were out there the temperatures were unbelievable. Guess which cars the temporary dock workers got? We got on the clock at 7:00 am and almost ran to the outside cars in order to get them unloaded before the sun did its nasty work.

The job consisted of placing a pallet on the ground in front of the door of the boxcar, then stacking the boxes or bags that were in the boxcar onto the pallet. No space was wasted. Everything was packed tight. We had to pry the first row of boxes out; after that it usually went pretty smoothly. Kraft and Morton Salt cars were the absolute worst. The Kraft boxes were filled with commercial-sized jars of mayonaise, ketchup, and mustard. Or relish or pickles. The boxes were HEAVY... and in them days the jars were all glass...no dropsies. The Morton Salt cars were...well...heavy bags of salt. A bag of salt a little larger than your old-fashioned brown paper bag from the grocery store would weigh about fifty pounds. You had to start by reaching up high to grab a heavy box or bag, then bend over and place it on the pallet. And not just any old way, either. Each product had to be stacked a specific way...arranged on the pallet so as to "lock" the stack in place. You couldn't go above a certain height on each pallet. So learning to lock five bags and stacking them in four layers translates into a "five-tie four high"...or "eight-tie three high"...etc, etc, etc. Each layer had to be laid out the opposite of the layer below; that is how they "tied" together. Most of the products you could stack as many as three pallets high. So we started off lifting product from the top; after a little bit we were lifting and shifting at about the same level. Then as we worked to the bottom we were lifting from the floor of the boxcar and stacking above shoulder level on the pallet. We usually put two pallets next to each other and built them both up to the start of the second pallet, then used one as a step up to the other. When that one got to its full level a forklift would take it inside and we put another in its place, building one and then another that way until the car was empty. Every five minutes or so some jerk came by and yelled at us to go faster...threatening to fire us if we didn't step it up.

This was real "man's" work. I never heard OSHA mentioned in those days; there was no such thing as a "two-man lift" or "70 lbs max". I never saw a back-brace belt. If you couldn't lift a hundred-pound bag of salt or rice over your head, you need not apply. We could get into a rhythm and shuffle product pretty quickly once we got warmed up. And warming up didn't take long in those outside boxcars. If we were still working on the outside cars after nine am, life became a real misery...the inside temperature could reach 150 degrees.

My first day on the job wore me down pretty hard. I had salt-rime all over my shirt; and my boots, stylish Easy-Rider boots with the cool straps and rings and all, were not ideal for working on your feet all day. I barely made it through a shower and dinner before flopping on the bed. The next morning was unbelievable hell. Every joint and muscle was on fire. My feet were swollen and painful and I was barely able to get my boots on. I could hardly walk. But I went to work. It took an hour or more to work the aches and kinks out of the muscles and joints but the feet were not getting better. Walking was pure misery and lifting and shifting caused the fire to spread up my legs. That night I was even slower to the shower and bed. The third day I wasn't sure I would be able to get up at all. The boots were the worst part; the wrestling match to get them on caused so much pain I was afraid I would pass out. But they were the only hard shoes I owned and we weren't allowed to wear "tennies". The heat was unbearable; the days went on forever. The breaks - fifteen minutes in the morning and afternoon - were too short, lunchtime too long in coming and too soon over, and driving home too little of a relief.

Monday of the second week was almost like starting all over again, but by noon I was feeling pretty good. My feet hadn't started off swollen; the weekend had calmed that down and I was actually able to jump around on the pallets without tears. Surprisingly, Tuesday I was able to get up and get going without the moans and groans. On Wednesday I actually took part in the lunchtime discussion of the Summer Olympics, got curious enough to watch that night, and my family got hooked on the coverage. The third week I was finally getting in condition...feet, joints, muscles. I still came home sweated-out and sore. I still woke up hurting and tight. But not like the first week. The end of the third week they let me go. "Term Limits" for non-union temps. They told me I did okay, but they would not hire me back on for at least three weeks. So I went in search of something new.

I think that the job at Associated Grocers would qualify today as one of those that sympathizers would say "white people" won't do...so we need an illegal to do it. Funny thing was, there wasn't a single Hispanic person on that crew. In those days, Phoenix was not covered on every corner with a dozen off-the-books "day workers" (illegals). Every time ICE raids a company and runs off a dozen or a hundred or three hundred illegals, the jobs are almost immediately filled by legal Americans who want to work. RoseinArizona's post about the cost of illegals has some sobering dollar amounts, especially in the area of labor. I don't think there are any jobs Americans won't do...I know I have had my share of jobs that I really didn't want to do but all those littlies were addicted to food. I would dare to say that I have had a few jobs the illegals wouldn't do. The argument is not valid.

 

28,634 views 53 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Dr, reply 24


No, hypocrite, I maintain that I will feed my family before the world.  This I proudly proclaim without any remorse or regret.  With the plenty I have left over, I will help those who are hungry outside of my family, but my family comes first.
End of Dr's quote

No one has asked nor told you to feed anyone.  What you demand is to deny anyone else an opportunity to feed their families so that you have the exclusive, superior rights to.

Reply #27 Top

  You're probably right that I don't have as much experience working with illegals as you do.  However, the main point was that illegals are called "illegals" for a reason.

  Others here are stating the issue more succinctly and accurately than I am, so I think I'll leave it to them.

 

  I do want to clarify a few things first, though: firstly, I'm not racist.  I say illegal Canadian immigrants are just as illegal as Mexican ones, and they should all be deported.  If the Americans who moved to Iraq did so illegally, I hope they're shipped back here in chains.  (Most) laws exist for a reason.

  Secondly, those super wealthy people in Mexico aren't only dealing in Mexico, so your argument there holds no water.  All countries have an elite super-wealthy class.  That doesn't mean there isn't corruption over there, but neither is it unique.

  Third, I never claimed that all Mexicans were just coming across the border out of greed.  I already said that.  However, if there is money to be made beyond what they were making previously, it stands to reason that people would try to better themselves - and not just because someone they knew was starving.

   Fourth, I'm not trying to sound snobbish or to stand on a high horse and declare how wrong you are.  I'm merely trying to point out that following your ideals of "non-fascist" and "non-supremacist" laws would have repercussions far beyond what anyone might expect.  The effects of a massive policy change take about six to eight years for them to be fully realized - you can say "end bigotry now," but if you do it, chances are good you'll royally screw over something eight years down the road.  With that in mind, the economy crash in the US was thus caused by Clinton, the current flatline was caused by Bush, and God only knows what Obama's current policies will look like in eight years.

  Fifth, I'm not denying privileges to anyone based on where they were born.  I'm denying privileges to criminals.  There is a difference.

Reply #28 Top

Fifth, I'm not denying privileges to anyone based on where they were born. I'm denying privileges to criminals. There is a difference.
End of quote

Chibiabos can't argue against the truth, he has to make something up & argue against that.  Waste of electrons.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 25
I wrote, essentially, that it was illegal for a black man to be free before the abolition of slavery.  You've thrown up a bunch of irrelevant nonsense in argument that had nothing to do with what I even wrote.
End of Chibiabos's quote

Which is also stupid, idiotic and ignorant.  There were free black men almost from the founding of the colonies, and definitely by the time of the Civil War.  So your statement that it was illegal is moronic.

The internment camps in the western U.S. during World War II was not fascist, supremacist, nor morally wrong?

Both of those situations were "keeping illegals" in 'their place.'
End of quote

Another moronic and ignorant statement.  neither was about "keeping illegals" in their place. In the first case, they were legal residents (check the constitution, even without the 13,14 and 15th amendments they are mentioned).  In the second case they were still legal residents.  There was a crime in the second case, but it had nothing to do with "illegals" (other than perhaps the fact that FDR's Policies were).

I've /worked/ with those "illegals" in farm fields.  Many could not get any jobs at all at home -- $0 income.  $0 income to feed their families.  How much food can you buy for $0?  Even in Mexico, food and rent does cost money.

I hazard to say I likely have more experience being with and getting to know some of these "illegals" than you do.
End of quote

I hazard to say you do not, as your statement reeks of stereotypes and cliches.  And ignorance.  Clearly you do not have a clue and I seriously doubt you have worked with them.  As indicated earlier, most of the illegals have something teenagers do not - work ethics and experience!  You do not get that with $0.  But $1000 sure beats $100 every day and that is what is pulling them over the border, not no work, just better paying work.

Ignorant through and through.  For starters, again, the people that come here illegally are not people who are well off ... their families are below the poverty line.  For another, the minimum wage laws would apply to them if they were legitimate and could actually get help from the law instead of persecution -- the same applies to the horrible crimes committed against them (by Mexican gangs and "Minutemen" lynch mobs).  As it stands, they know they cannot get help from the police or authorities.  This is because of the oppressive laws.
End of quote

There are so many problems with your lies and ignorance it really is hard to see where to start.  For starters, the illegal part means they broke a law.  You do know what laws are do you not?  Second, there are BILLIONS of people in the world who live below the poverty line (not poor line we have in America, but real Poverty - check out George Obama).  So now we must provide jobs for BILLIONS?  or are you racists against everyone else that is in poverty?

Third, if they were here legally, they would indeed be subject to minimum wage laws, and also to income tax, FICA, Medicare taxes and all sorts of other taxes that most do not pay since they have no reported income!

Fourth, you are right.  Most criminals do not get help from the law, they get ARRESTED.  Do you know what that means?  you break a law, you pay the penalty.  Your ignorance just astounds me!  Do you actually think before you write?  or do you just regurgitate talking points?

A lot of people cross that border illegally every day.  Because they are white, no one cares. 
End of quote

Do you have anything intelligent to say?  Your ignorance is rampant.  Yes, they do care!  Oh how soon we forget about the millennium bomber.  How about the communities ripped in 2 by the closing of the Canadian border?  Guess that escaped your radar as well.  But then you do not seem to know much in the way of facts, or have any capacity for intelligent reasoning.  just because the Canadian border is not making headlines daily does not mean nothing is going on.  Except in your small myopic mind.

You discriminate against people based on where they are born.  What have you -done- to earn yourself the supreme privileges you demand exclusive rights to and deny others who are different?  How does that fit in with the pledge's promise of "liberty, freedom and justice for all?"
End of quote

Idiot!  EVERY DAMN NATION ON EARTH DOES THAT!  That is why there are nations, and not speed bumps!  And quoting Superman is not the way to win points or arguments.  As an American citizen, we are denying nothing to anyone not Ameican!  They can have every right we do - where they are born!  Do you think (actually I know you do not think) that you can walk into China and demand the rights of citizens?  Or ANY country where you are not a citizen!

You are a sad pathetic stupid ignorant racist bigot.

Reply #30 Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 26


No one has asked nor told you to feed anyone.  What you demand is to deny anyone else an opportunity to feed their families so that you have the exclusive, superior rights to.
End of Chibiabos's quote

You are trying to you racist bigot ignorant idiot.  I am not demanding or denying anything.  But you are, and you are being a clowning hypocrite in doing so because you refuse to put your money where your mouth is.

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Audiafox, reply 27
    Fifth, I'm not denying privileges to anyone based on where they were born.  I'm denying privileges to criminals.  There is a difference.
End of Audiafox's quote

You are stating your case well, especially this statement.  Very insightful and accurate.

Reply #32 Top

Doc:  I don't think I've ever seen you wound so tight!  You've dealt with ignorance in abundance before...this fella is nothing special, don't waste so much adrenaline on him.  As usual, you have made your points well and shown our "friend" out for what he really is, ignorant, uninformed, immature and filled with lefty rhetoric... meaningless and off-point.

I don't understand why it is so important to this one or so many others like him to twist this issue up and make it look like reasoned individuals are bigoted and racist.  I know the plan is to create a new voting block of grateful illegals who will vote in every way to continue the handouts and freebies...but they have replaced the "American Dream" that was once "come to America, work hard, get ahead, buy a home, have a better life than the one you left" with "sneak into America, draw on the system and have them pay for your kids' schooling, your medical needs, get fed on the public dole, trash your neighborhood, and try to turn America into the same kind of ghetto you just left".  

There seems to be one state that has a proper perspective on the issue and the courage to act on that perspective.  We should be cheering Arizona on...not boycotting her.

Reply #33 Top

driftwood?

Reply #34 Top

Sorry BFD, I did not mean to trash your blog with my rhetoric.  I am hot on this issue as it strikes closer to home than most know.  It is not illegal immigrants per se that cause me such a heart burn, but the morons that try to imply it is racial.

Reply #35 Top

Sorry BFD, I did not mean to trash your blog with my rhetoric. I am hot on this issue as it strikes closer to home than most know. It is not illegal immigrants per se that cause me such a heart burn, but the morons that try to imply it is racial.
End of quote

Doc, In a way I'm glad you did lead the charge.  As you may know my wife and I went through the process LEGALLY to get her here.  It miffs me to no end people basically stating I blew thousands of dollars going through the wrong door.

Reply #36 Top

It miffs me to no end people basically stating I blew thousands of dollars going through the wrong door.
End of quote

Yours is a fairy tale that you have shared with many here at JU.  It helps to bring all of the rhetoric into perspective and allows us to realize there is hope for this country - because of the people that work tirelessly every day to make it better.  We are very fortunate to have new citizens like your wife that are here because of a love of country and man.

Reply #37 Top

We are very fortunate to have new citizens like your wife that are here because of a love of country and man.
End of quote

Well she isn't a citizen (yet).  She does have her greeny card.  However the EPA may not let her become a citizen though. :(   I think they may accuse her of causing global warming.... cuz all I know is I get HOT when I'm around her. *_*

Reply #38 Top

Doc:  You know you are always welcome here and I value your input...I was just surprised to see you so hot.  I didn't realize it was such a tripwire issue with you.  It is with me, too.  Folks like Mrs AD who do it right have a right to be upset with folks who try to buck the system and then our elected idiots grant amnesty every 15-20 years which really pops my cork.  As you know, my heat on the issue comes from the national security aspect.  We can not say we are protecting our citizens when anyone can slip in and go to work the next day.

AD:   :grin:

Reply #39 Top

She does have her greeny card. However the EPA may not let her become a citizen though.
End of quote

??????

I think they may accuse her of causing global warming.... cuz all I know is I get HOT when I'm around her.
End of quote

:grin:

Reply #40 Top

She does have her greeny card. However the EPA may not let her become a citizen though.

??????
End of quote

 

I was trying an inconvenient pun sequence for my joke. :P

B)

Reply #41 Top

Folks like Mrs AD who do it right have a right to be upset with folks who try to buck the system and then our elected idiots grant amnesty every 15-20 years which really pops my cork.
End of quote

If you are gonna grant amnesty then give me my money back! 

I'm so sick of the arguments of how I'm racist and crap for doing things legally.  I'm also sick of those saying they aren't doing anything you wouldn't do in the same situation.  Excuse me I think I have a right to differ.  We did it legally, so can they.  Anyone pay attention to the Chinese restaurants?  If you watch carefully many of them use their business to bring their relatives over and pay for them to get on their pathway to citizenship.  They are doing it.... again.... LEGALLY. 

Besides, I can't be racist... I love Tacos! :smitten:

Reply #42 Top

I used to have a green card...but when I retired they gave me this black one.  Sigh.

Reply #43 Top
 

Hey All!  I read this when your first posted it BFD.  This was while my internet has been flaky at best for a bunch of months.  Then it just went kaputz.  Yeah, maybe its because so many people are crossing the border?

More seriously, then me getting my internet fix is that I'm guess Chibiabos isn't coming back, but as Doc was getting/alluding to he seemed to be against borders.   In reality, for countries not to have borders would just be chaotic hence why in the EU every country still kept their own borders.  Another example is the United States ,which I am a citizen of, each State has borders for a reason.  Now if I go to Colorado (which I lived there for a time) there are certain things that I need to do even though I am a Citizen. 

Then on a smaller scale yet similar is property (which is coming under attack as of recently on low key levels and I'm talking U.S property here).  I own property.  The reason one owns property is to prevent someone else from laying claim to it or building on it.  An individual just can't come on my property and start building on it (unless with my authorization and the county, township, ect ect). 

I wonder where Chibiabos lives, we should have a big JU party at Chibiabos' place!  Then just stay on.  Eatting Chibiabos foods, drinking Chibiabos drink, using Chibiabos WC (and abusing Chibiabos WC).  Chibiabos we also don't expect to pay rent or do any up keep on your place.

I agree with all (Doc, BFD, AD, P77, PTL, ACL, and ACLU) :-), the issue is that there are laws put in place for a reason.  I don't agree with all the laws that are in place in our country, yet this does not entitle me to pick which ones I follow and which ones I don't follow.  If I don't like a law, there are certain steps that I can take to change those laws.

  There are certain countries that don't have that.  There are certain countries that if you are an illegal alien there you don't get deported,  some my torture you because they may think that you're a spy, while other countries might just deheaded (I know its behead) you. 

Chibiabos, I would be interested in hearing you thoughts on borders.  As well as when the big JU party will be?

Reply #44 Top

p.s AD good to see you :-)

p.p.s Fajitas and Tamales are so much tastier (yes more tastier would be appropriate here as well :-) than tacos.

Reply #45 Top

Tamales are so much tastier
End of quote

But WHICH tamales?  A I found out the hard way, there are differences.  My friend's mother makes the best (and my wife even asked her to help her out).  But El Salvadorians?  They need to go to tamale school! ;)

Reply #46 Top

p.s AD good to see you
End of quote

Thanks.


We've been busy as you know.  Pushing over 15 now weekly. :)

Reply #47 Top

Hmm?  Did I parachute into a previous post?  Ahhh...Tamales are a subject all on their own.  Doc, didn't we have a conversation about tamales once before?  I grew up on tamales from Rosarita's restaurant on Guyamaca in El Cajon...they always put a whole black olive in them and I thought EVERYONE did that.  Imagine my disappointment upon reaching the end of a tamale to find no olive had been in there!

PP:  That is an excellent comparison.  Gotta have borders and ya gotta have laws.

Reply #48 Top

Ahhh...Tamales are a subject all on their own. Doc, didn't we have a conversation about tamales once before?
End of quote

Indeed, but PP probably missed it.  Besides, I am still lamenting the fact I cannot get decent Tamales here (unless made by my wife or the mother of my friends).  I miss them so!  My wife hates making them.

Reply #49 Top

Quoting Dr, reply 48

Ahhh...Tamales are a subject all on their own. Doc, didn't we have a conversation about tamales once before?
Indeed, but PP probably missed it.  Besides, I am still lamenting the fact I cannot get decent Tamales here (unless made by my wife or the mother of my friends).  I miss them so!  My wife hates making them.
End of Dr's quote

You guys can relive the conversation by writing about it and I can read it :->  Huh? Then I will be filled in and not have missed it!

Doc, your wife is right though tamales are a pain in the butt to make ESPECIALLY to make some really good ones.  I did know there were several different types of tamales.  And as stated not all Tamales are created equal.

Thanks BFD, for the compliment!

BFD and Doc, I know you guys are friends.  You can see this throughout both of your articles and comments.  Also, I know that one of you guys knows the others son fairly well because of the military (I think DOC you know BFD's son).  You both should write a separate articles recollecting your first encounter of one another and your first impressions.

Since there is so much tamale talk, you both (DOC and BFD) can give a state by state of where the best Tamales can be purchased!  Because I know in my state I'm not sure of that/or I haven't found a good place that has them :-< And now I really could go for one (who can stop at one? Maybe a dozen?)

Reply #50 Top

AD, that is fantastic news to hear! Are you guys do all the prayers/canters?  I guess this should be a PM, so PM me in filling in the details of how it is going!